A small venting regarding Orlando

Michael

Mstfrancis

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 18 2016
Sadly, hate is a powerful thing, one that can trigger knee jerk emotions or fuel a long slow burn of plotting, planning and malicious intent. Each day when I read the news I am saddened by the strong worded arguments and hate mongering that we have become accustomed to. Honestly, it needs to stop.

I remember being taught early on that people who looked different than me and believed in different things than me were still people. I also remember wondering why I was being taught that, anything otherwise had never crossed my mind before. Maybe, I was lucky. Growing up I had friends of all races, classes, creeds and beliefs. Hence why, if you haven't heard it from me yet, you are going to now, my motto is "you be you."

I fail see to see the positive side of the argument where building a wall, keeping borders tighter, and shunning those that are different from ourselves. Because ultimately that rhetoric was already written during WW2 Nazi Germany. It causes panic. Panic where people feel the need to protect themselves and their beliefs.

With all this said, the one thing that keeps resonating with me is how quickly people can express their emotions. May that be with words, flags, or weapons. What we need is the freedom to feel safe in our homes and on the streets. I am unsure about the rest of you, but personally I do not feel safer when I see a shotgun rack on the back of a pick up truck or a fire arm attached to a holster on a belt loop. I do not feel safer knowing that one of my civil right is to bare arms and is protected by men and women in uniform. I personally would find it more reassuring that someone who does not share my belief of being "you be you" would never have the opportunity to carry a weapon EVER.

And maybe this is what all that confusion is about. Maybe that is why I have a hard time comprehending loss at this level. And most likely why I am not a lawyer or judge. I simply cannot understand it.
3 people liked this

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 18 2016
The following tags have no closing tag: center, spoiler


With everything going on with my Dad, I haven't had too much time to process this. When I read about it or saw it one the news, I had to back off because my emotions were already so high. Now that I have a chance to read some of this, its deeply shocking.

It's so angering seeing pro-gun and anti-gay people and organizations giving their "heart felt sympathies and condolences" when they've done absolutely nothing to prevent this from happening and helped stoke the flames of anti-lgbt violence. Even worse are the groups, like the GOP, who want to straight-wash this and act like this wasn't an attack against the gay community.


It so important that we don't allow bigots to turn the glbt community against the Islamic community. Some lgbt people are Muslim and some Muslims are lgbt. We are not separate. There is so much work to be done in the Muslism community and Arabic countries, but don't let fear and anger turn our hearts. We need to remember that extremists like ISIS (or ISIL) aren't Muslim. That might be how they market their particular brand of hate, but it's important to know that many of the attackers aren't devout Muslims. They didn't attend Mosque regularly or follow many of the religions tenants.

Having the tblg community as an advocate for reasonable gun control laws is a game changer here in the US. No community knows more recently what its like to be deprived of our basic freedoms and how important our civil rights truly are. We can be a voice of reason when debating gun control laws between ideological hardliners. We must help dispel the myth advanced by the NRA that the government is coming to take your guns away and advocate for reasonable controls like mandatory background checks, wait periods and limits on what kinds of guns are available for civilians to purchase. The Second Amendment is just as important to gay community as the other 9.

It has been amazingly wonderful reading about how police across the country and even the world have stepped up patrols and increased forces to protect pride marches and events. To think that just 47 years ago, it would've been those same police trying to shut down the celebrations. It helps show how truly far we've come.
5 people liked this
Edited June 19 2016 by nicholasjohn16

Unknown Person

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 19 2016
Quote by NicholasJohn16
It has been amazingly wonderful reading about how police across the country and even the world have stepped up patrols and increased forces to protect pride marches and events. To think that just 47 years ago, it would've been those same police trying to shut down the celebrations. It helps show how truly far we've come.


Just got home from Stonewall Columbus Pride Festival and I can tell you, the place was crawling with security. Mostly plainclothes with badges and open carry, but there was no shortage of uniformed cops either. I'm sure some of the open carry was just regular attendees, Pink Pistols and whatnot, but the official Cbus PD was out in full force and was much appreciated.
2 people liked this
Edited June 19 2016 by Unknown Person
Nicolas J. Artley

Khazaan

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 19 2016
Quote by NicholasJohn16

It has been amazingly wonderful reading about how police across the country and even the world have stepped up patrols and increased forces to protect pride marches and events.


Are you so sure about that? Last year even the police attacked the pride parade in Istanbul (Turkey) and Russian Pride is even unlawful ...

I bet 1.000.000 EC, that it will happen in 2016 again. If I loose, the fleet gets the EC.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/28/world/turkey-pride-parade-lgbt-violence/index.html


[attachment=3563]Turkeypride2015.png[/attachment]
2 people liked this
Edited June 19 2016 by Khazaan
Kiera Skylar

LoonShy

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 19 2016
Quote by Khazaan
Quote by NicholasJohn16

It has been amazingly wonderful reading about how police across the country and even the world have stepped up patrols and increased forces to protect pride marches and events.


Are you so sure about that? Last year even the police attacked the pride parade in Istanbul (Turkey) and Russian Pride is even unlawful ...

I bet 1.000.000 EC, that it will happen in 2016 again. If I loose, the fleet gets the EC.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/28/world/turkey-pride-parade-lgbt-violence/index.html


[attachment=3563]Turkeypride2015.png[/attachment]


Thank you, because in my experience, it is the cops that start shooting first more often than a random ex-gay or similar, the real source of the problem is religions and anti gay thought processes, not the gun alone, though guns should be far less easily gotten because of their dangerous nature.

I personally am in favor of the pink psitols becoming the military arm of the lgbt community, and protecting lgbt folks from anyone, not relying on local police and hoping you don't get a homophobic cop that will find any way he can to throw gays in jail or under the proverbial bus, we need an army of our own to make things change in our favor, not just a simple movement for rights.
Paul

WarGames

Re:A small venting regarding Orlando

June 19 2016
From the abbey of the brew city sisters of perpetual indulgence keep pulse on your heart and love...



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 19 2016
Quote by Khazaan
Are you so sure about that? Last year even the police attacked the pride parade in Istanbul (Turkey) and Russian Pride is even unlawful ...


Yes, I'm sure about that.

http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/fayetteville-police-to-boost-security-during-weekend-nwa-pride-events

http://www.king5.com/news/local/olympia-police-step-up-patrols-for-capital-city-pride/247308359

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-pride-events-safety-changes-20160616-story.html

http://nbc4i.com/2016/06/17/35th-annual-columbus-pride-festival-begins-in-columbus/

And that's just a handful.

I also said:

There is so much work to be done in the Muslism community and Arabic countries, but don't let fear and anger turn our hearts.
2 people liked this
Nicolas J. Artley

Khazaan

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 20 2016
"Yes, I'm sure about that." (NicholasJohn16)


I count that as a bet accepted... and I had been right.
Nicholas, please transfer your EC to Gareth, for the Fleets Pride Event ...
Kind regards from Nicolas :woohoo:

News from TODAY:

Todays (19.06.2016) Gay Pride in Turkey ended in violence - the police DID NOT protect, but was the ATTACKER!

I started a new Topic, so that on here, Orlando can be back on track ...

Turkey Police Attack can be found here: http://fleet.stonewallgaming.net/forums/the-stonewall-lounge/75296-turkish-police-stop-istanbul-gay-pride-with-tear-gas-and-plastic-bullets#93146
Edited June 20 2016 by Khazaan
Tsar Agus

WhiteOnmyoji

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 20 2016
Quote by Ellamin
I personally am in favor of the pink psitols becoming the military arm of the lgbt community, and protecting lgbt folks from anyone, not relying on local police and hoping you don't get a homophobic cop that will find any way he can to throw gays in jail or under the proverbial bus, we need an army of our own to make things change in our favor, not just a simple movement for rights.


No just no! This is an organization that stated that the gun was not to blame for the attack. You know if the shooter had a 9 mm the body count would not be at 49 and 50 injured. The pink pistols are a dangerous right wing organization that are sucking the dicks of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnel.

I had to bury 4 people this week. 4 funerals in one week I got another 3 next week. I'm not suppose to go to that many funerals in a 2 week period at my age. This isn't the 80's or 90's. If you want a militant wing of the LGBT community look to organizations like ACT UP. That's an organization that got stuff done. The federalist papers stated what the founding fathers Ment in regards to the 2nd amendment. A militia. And in 1939 the Supreme Court defended that when stating a sawed off shotgun was illegal. Because it wasn't part of a militias arsenal.

As for cops I know PLENTY of LGBT law enforcement officers, one of the plaintiffs that got DOMA overturned was the wife of a police officer. Many cities in the US and globally has an LGBT liaison unit. So I have to commend OPD for their support, hard work and dedication over the past week. I also commend officers who protected vigils and marches globally. (Except for the Mounties I don't know what the heck they been doing j/k love you Dave)

In DC the LGBT liaison unit is one of the most decorated and sought after posting by police officer. That's a unit that works with, protects AND TRAIN other units in how to assist and deal with the LGBT community. So yes I think the cops are doing a kick ass job and as a gay militant ex-Navy gun owner I shun the pink pistols.
4 people liked this
Edward Lloris

Saintplazma

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 20 2016
Quote by Khazaan
"Yes, I'm sure about that." (NicholasJohn16)


I count that as a bet accepted... and I had been right.
Nicholas, please transfer your EC to Gareth, for the Fleets Pride Event ...
Kind regards from Nicolas :woohoo:

News from TODAY:

Todays (19.06.2016) Gay Pride in Turkey ended in violence - the police DID NOT protect, but was the ATTACKER!

I started a new Topic, so that on here, Orlando can be back on track ...

Turkey Police Attack can be found here: http://fleet.stonewallgaming.net/forums/the-stonewall-lounge/75296-turkish-police-stop-istanbul-gay-pride-with-tear-gas-and-plastic-bullets#93146

Countries with no LGBT protections are auto exclude... I'm betting on Nick here... And up the bet I guaranteed 5 million EC
Unknown Person liked this
Edited June 20 2016 by Saintplazma
Dave (Voleron)

Voleron

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 20 2016
Quote by WhiteOnmyoji
(Except for the Mounties I don't know what the heck they been doing j/k love you Dave)


Oh I'm sorry... we've been a little tied up!


[attachment=3567]CkEMRUpUgAAWFVr.jpg[/attachment]






[attachment=3569]Image3_2016-06-19.jpg[/attachment]
2 people liked this
Edited June 20 2016 by Voleron
Kiera Skylar

LoonShy

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 20 2016
Quote by WhiteOnmyoji
Quote by Ellamin
I personally am in favor of the pink psitols becoming the military arm of the lgbt community, and protecting lgbt folks from anyone, not relying on local police and hoping you don't get a homophobic cop that will find any way he can to throw gays in jail or under the proverbial bus, we need an army of our own to make things change in our favor, not just a simple movement for rights.


No just no! This is an organization that stated that the gun was not to blame for the attack. You know if the shooter had a 9 mm the body count would not be at 49 and 50 injured. The pink pistols are a dangerous right wing organization that are sucking the dicks of Paul Ryan and Mitch McConnel.

I had to bury 4 people this week. 4 funerals in one week I got another 3 next week. I'm not suppose to go to that many funerals in a 2 week period at my age. This isn't the 80's or 90's. If you want a militant wing of the LGBT community look to organizations like ACT UP. That's an organization that got stuff done. The federalist papers stated what the founding fathers Ment in regards to the 2nd amendment. A militia. And in 1939 the Supreme Court defended that when stating a sawed off shotgun was illegal. Because it wasn't part of a militias arsenal.

As for cops I know PLENTY of LGBT law enforcement officers, one of the plaintiffs that got DOMA overturned was the wife of a police officer. Many cities in the US and globally has an LGBT liaison unit. So I have to commend OPD for their support, hard work and dedication over the past week. I also commend officers who protected vigils and marches globally. (Except for the Mounties I don't know what the heck they been doing j/k love you Dave)

In DC the LGBT liaison unit is one of the most decorated and sought after posting by police officer. That's a unit that works with, protects AND TRAIN other units in how to assist and deal with the LGBT community. So yes I think the cops are doing a kick ass job and as a gay militant ex-Navy gun owner I shun the pink pistols.


Well, hell if I knew any of that, around here it seems to me that most cops are anti gay manly men and the pink psitols are just a gays with guns group.

We still need to get some sort of balance for this, first the attacks and then the erasure, and now continued oppression, it can't be won by simple sit ins and marches anymore, straights think we got finished when we won marriage, we must force the straight world to change now, before they let us get slaughtered because they grew bored of our "freakishness"


I'm probably just a bit, more hostile than I should be because the way Orlando went down and has been treated, I am just, still angry and scared that it'd happen again.
Edited June 20 2016 by LoonShy
Nicolas J. Artley

Khazaan

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 20 2016
Quote by SaintPlazma
Quote by Khazaan
"Yes, I'm sure about that." (NicholasJohn16)


I count that as a bet accepted... and I had been right.
Nicholas, please transfer your EC to Gareth, for the Fleets Pride Event ...
Kind regards from Nicolas :woohoo:

News from TODAY:

Todays (19.06.2016) Gay Pride in Turkey ended in violence - the police DID NOT protect, but was the ATTACKER!

I started a new Topic, so that on here, Orlando can be back on track ...

Turkey Police Attack can be found here: http://fleet.stonewallgaming.net/forums/the-stonewall-lounge/75296-turkish-police-stop-istanbul-gay-pride-with-tear-gas-and-plastic-bullets#93146

Countries with no LGBT protections are auto exclude... I'm betting on Nick here... And up the bet I guaranteed 5 million EC


How do you define "LGBT protection"?
It is totally legal to be LGBT, have LGBT relationship and also LGBT consensual sex. There is even an age of consent for homosexuals (18 years old) written in their law books.

Turkey isn´t offering a "civil registered partnership / marriage", but otherwise, one shouldn´t have any problems as being LGBT.

The real life is different as a quick look into the Wikipedia shows. LGBT rights activist group LAMBDA had been banned ones by some court, but the verdict had been cancelled.

Basically: Being LGBT in Turkey is legal, the state and people don´t care about correct behaviour of the law, as they think that the religion does dictate otherwise.

Look it up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Turkey

What Turkey did yesterday again, was bend their rules and laws to their liking by refering to vaguely worded laws designed to protect public morality.
They do it again and again - year after year. It´s become already a ritual.

Instead of protecting the TRANS Pride march, they firstly issued an order, banning the pride march under security reasons. The march took place - and the executive send the police riot squat under turkish Anti Terrorist Laws. The trans pride march was (even if illegally) banned and by that they were extremist protestors.

Also to mention, that right wing anti homosexual protests were allowed to burn rainbow flags ... because they stand in for Turkish society order and correct behaviour ...

***

To make another statement:
"Our" western society counts Turkey to the western developed and democratic countries. Turkey is seeking entrance and want become part of the European Union (meaning free market, visa free work and travel, ...) and is also an AMERICAN ALLY within the NATO defence network.

I wouldn´t call turkey, being an extrimist islamic state as Afghanistan, Iran, Irak, Pakistan, Syria, Egypt ... all countries, where death peannalty is written in their "religious sharia" book. (which in fact is NOT a religios book to follow but only a guide book to organize society and is interpreted again and again in different ways. There had even be times, where homosexuality was perfectly okay within Islam. There are wonderful love poems available if you research it.)

***

GAY pride is planned für next weekend (25.06.2016) and is already banned, too.
Edited June 20 2016 by Khazaan

Unknown Person

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 20 2016
I believe Nick was simply trying to highlight the support we do have in countries across the world. Bringing up countries that are still behind on LGBT acceptance is not only beside the point he was trying to make, it ignores devalues the tremendous strides we've made as a world-wide LGBT community. It's very said that Russia and Istanbul are still stuck in the 1950's when it comes to LGBT rights but even they've come a long way and hopefully, with continued support and perseverance, they'll get to a better situation just like we have in the West. It's going to take time though, just like it did for our societies and it's probably going to be a difficult process for those involved.

What stymies me is what I'm reading and hearing from conservatives following these events and how it cannot be a wakeup call for them. Most of them won't even come to the table to even begin to discuss stricter gun control laws at all. It's like they just put their fingers in their collective hears and go: "la la la la.. 2nd amendment.. la la la la.. must protect ourselves from Islamic terrorists.. la la la.. you can't have my gun!"

I keep seeing and hearing the same old party rhetoric on news debates and friends' FB pages. There's this silly one that compares guns to cars saying that we don't ban cars even though it's statistically more probably of being killed by one than by a gun. That is a blatant false equivalency because we have a LOT of laws governing the ownership and operation of automobiles and they weren't all put into law back in 1885, where they? No.

Speed limits were later introduced, seat belts didn't become mandatory till 1968. First and foremost you need a licence to own and drive a car and what happens if you get a DUI, are involved in a police chase or don't pay your speeding tickets? You get your license revoked and you might even go to jail. Guns are nowhere near this level of regulation in this country and maybe it's not heresy against the constitution to say they should be.

There are glaring loopholes in our gun laws that this guy, who was being investigated by the FBI and on the no-fly list, was easily able to exploit. That gap in legislation has cost us a lot of lives over the years and can be laid at the feat of the gun lobby and our own government whose job, according to the constitution, is to establish justice and ensure domestic tranquility.

Do we ban all guns? I don't know, honestly. There are over 300 million of them in this country but it did seem to work well for Australia. I just think there needs to be a real and open dialogue about this issue that uses facts rather than feelings and party-based rhetoric.
2 people liked this
Isthisscience

isthisscience

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 21 2016
Quote by Khazaan
Basically: Being LGBT in Turkey is legal, the state and people don´t care about correct behaviour of the law, as they think that the religion does dictate otherwise.


That is fair, esp. outside Istanbul. They only reason it is decriminalised is because they are trying to join the EU. If it wasn't for those protections written into the EU treaties themselves, most of Eastern Europe would shoot us on sight (Vote Remain on June 23). There is a big gulf between where the law is and where society is. The latter follows several decades later and sometimes isn't even related (see certain European countries who have decriminalised for several hundred years but were still gunning down pride marches a few decades ago).

The attitude of the police is related to the attitude of the population as a whole. Specifically, the section of the population that takes a job that includes shooting and beating in the job description - not that I want to have a go at police offices, many are lovely but they do attract a lot of people who you would not want to see in a position of authority). Western police forces have been getting a lot better as a reflection of the society they come from. They are far from perfect for the same reason. There is no reason to expect Turkish police not to shoot you for the same reason.

However, who do I trust more with a gun. A police officer or that guy sitting on my wall outside. Well, I'm British no neither. But given a choice, the police. There is no reason to make accidental or planned murder of another human being so easy. It is the most vulnerable who will always suffer the most, regardless of which end of the weapon they find themselves on.
Nicolas J. Artley

Khazaan

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 21 2016
Hello Jacien, SaintPlazma, NicholasJohn16 and whom I might have addressed in some way,

1st let me explain, that I read NicholasJohn16´s "we are protected" as a basically thing, not relater only to the US. There is, what I can read in the press coverage really a bigger coverage of police, trying to protect pride marches and be it just as a "show of force".

Quote by Jacien
I believe Nick was simply trying to highlight the support we do have in countries across the world. Bringing up countries that are still behind on LGBT acceptance is not only beside the point he was trying to make, it ignores devalues the tremendous strides we've made as a world-wide LGBT community.


This is not the case in many other "civilized" country in Europe. I can start counting with my fingers and my hand is soon not enough. Poland, Ukraine, Tschechoslowakia, Italy, Lithuania, (turkey, Russia) ... all countries with a very conservative religious (catholic) background.

Talking about conservative: I guess, this is also the problem with many states in the US. I have absolute no clue, how under the protection of "free speech" law, a priest after the Orlando mass killing can tell in a service, that this it gods will and it is okay to kill homosexuals.

If that Baptist priest is serious about the laws ordered by moses, than he also should look at the commandments given even as a higher milestone. One of them states: You shall NOT kill. It is just illogical, as Spock would say.

Me, being no longer a 16 year old and had to struggle with my coming out am very glad, what the LGBT community fought for and of which me and the "next generation" can benefit of. We are now in a situation, where being gay or different isn´t that weird anymore.

In Germany, it was even illegal up to the year 1994, with the so called §175 in it's Criminal Code and got get you into jail. Obviously not a great outlook to live, if you discover as young person, that this might apply to you and you would have to fear the police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph_175

Nowadays there is something like a registered civil partnership which same sex couples can register for - at saxony ironically at the vehicle registration office and not at the civil registery when the law was introduced ... :dry:

Germany doesn´t have a full gay marriage system, because the chancellor Merkel has a gut feeling about it - and again its the "Christian Democratic Party who is in charge of politics and fears less votes in an upcoming election. Another great example, why politics don´t work out as they should when logical reasoning comes to mind. Germany doesn´t have the case with church marriages, who are not binding. Only civil registered marriages count before the law. So, it should be easy to enable a "states marriage" easily under the reason, that two people want to take care for each other ...

And for other security on the streets or at prides: of course the police is attending and protecting the big pride at Cologne or Berlin. They are not so much protest marches but more like a big carnival of colours.

Weapons: It´s hardly possible to own a gun or rifle - only people who are in the category "high risk" are allowed to own and carry the weapon at its body. Other professions like hunters or hobbyist shooters can own only a limited amount of weapones, are NOT allowed to carry them in public but only transport them with a lock to the shooting ground. Ammonition is kept seperatly. (unfortunalty this still enables some to do amok shooting as like as in the UK.)

As far as I understood the weapon laws in the UK, they are even more restrict. I handed over my sports weapon for getting it destroyed over to the police ...

Weapon of Mass destruction should not be in the possession of anyone - in optimal circumstances not even the government. And the Bobbys are not walking around with a weapon in its belt. (another case in Germany - every cop has a handgun, in special circumstances a light machine gun).

I asked myself: could a Massaker as it happened in Orlando happen in Germany or in my city? The answer is yes.

1.) It´s way to easy to get access (behind the train station ...) to drugs, passports, weapons ...

2.) The laws of an society have a major influence at the mood and mindset of people. If religions or even state laws enable discrimination for various reasons, it is highly likely, that such incidents happen.

3.) I´m in an age, where I thought I don´t need to show my gay side in public s it is accepted and being gay/bi/whatever is only one part of my personality - surely not the most important part. But society obviously needs still to make the connection to: He´s gay, but he´s so normal.

Of course I am normal - because being LGBT is and should be ...

4.) I never understood the 2nd amendment as an US outsider, but again it lacks logic. If I would be living in the wide wilderness of the US, it might be a good feeling of being able to defend against animals. But a single shot gun should be enough for that - i don´t want to go to war with a semi-automatic rifle as used in the military. And sorry - if I would be in a city, why would I carry a gun at my body? I would expect others not to draw it in my vicinity, why should I do it? And not trusting their own government? Hello? That really sounds paranoide. I guess, you folks in the US are proud of having a democratic society, don´t you?

5.) The LGBT peer-group shall not make the mistake of blaming other minorities like muslims (there are also LGBT muslims and most who are refugees do not only flee the war, but also the changes in their society.

... and finally I am glad, that the LGBT and gun control topic is finally up in the US. It´s just so sad, that 50 lost their lives, the same got heavily injured and lots more of their friends and LGBT peers psychologically traumatised.

Let us be vigilant against hate.

Nicolas-James
Edited June 21 2016 by Khazaan
Kiera Skylar

LoonShy

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 21 2016
Quote by Khazaan
Hello Jacien, SaintPlazma, NicholasJohn16 and whom I might have addressed in some way,

1st let me explain, that I read NicholasJohn16´s "we are protected" as a basically thing, not relater only to the US. There is, what I can read in the press coverage really a bigger coverage of police, trying to protect pride marches and be it just as a "show of force".

Quote by Jacien
I believe Nick was simply trying to highlight the support we do have in countries across the world. Bringing up countries that are still behind on LGBT acceptance is not only beside the point he was trying to make, it ignores devalues the tremendous strides we've made as a world-wide LGBT community.


This is not the case in many other "civilized" country in Europe. I can start counting with my fingers and my hand is soon not enough. Poland, Ukraine, Tschechoslowakia, Italy, Lithuania, (turkey, Russia) ... all countries with a very conservative religious (catholic) background.

Talking about conservative: I guess, this is also the problem with many states in the US. I have absolute no clue, how under the protection of "free speech" law, a priest after the Orlando mass killing can tell in a service, that this it gods will and it is okay to kill homosexuals.

If that Baptist priest is serious about the laws ordered by moses, than he also should look at the commandments given even as a higher milestone. One of them states: You shall NOT kill. It is just illogical, as Spock would say.

Me, being no longer a 16 year old and had to struggle with my coming out am very glad, what the LGBT community fought for and of which me and the "next generation" can benefit of. We are now in a situation, where being gay or different isn´t that weird anymore.

In Germany, it was even illegal up to the year 1994, with the so called §175 in it's Criminal Code and got get you into jail. Obviously not a great outlook to live, if you discover as young person, that this might apply to you and you would have to fear the police.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paragraph_175

Nowadays there is something like a registered civil partnership which same sex couples can register for - at saxony ironically at the vehicle registration office and not at the civil registery when the law was introduced ... :dry:

Germany doesn´t have a full gay marriage system, because the chancellor Merkel has a gut feeling about it - and again its the "Christian Democratic Party who is in charge of politics and fears less votes in an upcoming election. Another great example, why politics don´t work out as they should when logical reasoning comes to mind. Germany doesn´t have the case with church marriages, who are not binding. Only civil registered marriages count before the law. So, it should be easy to enable a "states marriage" easily under the reason, that two people want to take care for each other ...

And for other security on the streets or at prides: of course the police is attending and protecting the big pride at Cologne or Berlin. They are not so much protest marches but more like a big carnival of colours.

Weapons: It´s hardly possible to own a gun or rifle - only people who are in the category "high risk" are allowed to own and carry the weapon at its body. Other professions like hunters or hobbyist shooters can own only a limited amount of weapones, are NOT allowed to carry them in public but only transport them with a lock to the shooting ground. Ammonition is kept seperatly. (unfortunalty this still enables some to do amok shooting as like as in the UK.)

As far as I understood the weapon laws in the UK, they are even more restrict. I handed over my sports weapon for getting it destroyed over to the police ...

Weapon of Mass destruction should not be in the possession of anyone - in optimal circumstances not even the government. And the Bobbys are not walking around with a weapon in its belt. (another case in Germany - every cop has a handgun, in special circumstances a light machine gun).

I asked myself: could a Massaker as it happened in Orlando happen in Germany or in my city? The answer is yes.

1.) It´s way to easy to get access (behind the train station ...) to drugs, passports, weapons ...

2.) The laws of an society have a major influence at the mood and mindset of people. If religions or even state laws enable discrimination for various reasons, it is highly likely, that such incidents happen.

3.) I´m in an age, where I thought I don´t need to show my gay side in public s it is accepted and being gay/bi/whatever is only one part of my personality - surely not the most important part. But society obviously needs still to make the connection to: He´s gay, but he´s so normal.

Of course I am normal - because being LGBT is and should be ...

4.) I never understood the 2nd amendment as an US outsider, but again it lacks logic. If I would be living in the wide wilderness of the US, it might be a good feeling of being able to defend against animals. But a single shot gun should be enough for that - i don´t want to go to war with a semi-automatic rifle as used in the military. And sorry - if I would be in a city, why would I carry a gun at my body? I would expect others not to draw it in my vicinity, why should I do it? And not trusting their own government? Hello? That really sounds paranoide. I guess, you folks in the US are proud of having a democratic society, don´t you?

5.) The LGBT peer-group shall not make the mistake of blaming other minorities like muslims (there are also LGBT muslims and most who are refugees do not only flee the war, but also the changes in their society.

... and finally I am glad, that the LGBT and gun control topic is finally up in the US. It´s just so sad, that 50 lost their lives, the same got heavily injured and lots more of their friends and LGBT peers psychologically traumatised.

Let us be vigilant against hate.

Nicolas-James


We have more of an oligarchy anymore, so, it isn't as free and open as it once was, nor can we trust the authorities so easily, so there is a flaw in it there.

Just my two cents though
Lars Zandor

Lars_Zandor

A small venting regarding Orlando

June 21 2016
I just came across this on Imgur. It's nice.

http://imgur.com/gallery/ttTrf


Also, this thread title is horrible. Shame on me.
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