How does the guild proceed in SWTOR now?

Ok, let me say that ahead, I really love the guild and everyone here, ingame and in the forums. Even though I am not sooo active in the forums, but in the game.

That said, I think I must emphasize that in my personal view both the game SWTOR as well as the guild has come into a sort of crisis, and my will to keep this MMO subscribing is sort of unsecure. I mean, I had a blast with levelling 2 chars to level 50 now and some other chars to mid levels, but now logging into Republic, all too often I am either alone or 2-3 people are online, even at evening times. The situation with Empire "LoS" is a bit better, 8-10 people at prime time, but that surely isn't anything to built a future on.

I am *really* not endgame fixated, but as it is, I haven't seen a single operation, hardly any guild Warzone or Hardmode action. Now mind ya, I respect not everyone wants everything, and I don't want to turn the guild into anything different than the relaxed circle of friends that it is. But when we had ~80 people online in the first month and we dropped to a handful, I think we should discuss options.

One thing I would like to know is, if so many left to some other guilds or if people just stopped playing SWTOR altogether? With so few numbers, I feel I am just missing a whole lot of content. Essentially I haven't made more than 2-3 heroic quests for almost 2 months, since so few guildies and also since the JekkJekk Thar server is kinda bleeding subs. At prime time planets like Voss or Corellia had 10-15 people online!

The question is, what do we do? Do we form common chat channels with other GLBT-friendly guilds to pool our ressources? How realistic is it, that people will actually use such a channel? Or should we rather try to merge with other GLBT-friendly guilds? I mean, I understand THAT is a hot topic for some, but tbh. in my advanced age of 41, I care little about powergames anymore. I just want plenty of nice people around me to get some stuff done. These days I feel like I felt after 5 years playing EVERQUEST II, when most people I knew had left or stopped playing, and I found myself standing in Qeynos days and hours waiting for some group or endgame stuff to happen. It was not fun to stand and wait and do nothing, I tell ya. So I really don't want to dramatize this, just calm and reasonable see the options. I just see a lot of content I would want to experience, that requires groups, and I don't see that anymore at all. Plus, with such mini numbers even a friendly chat is getting rare.


Please understand I love this guild and the people here, but I really don't like to stand around bored in a MMO. ;)

Thank you for posting, I share the same concerns. Honestly I dont know what is going on with the dwindling number of online players. I know it's a bit of a grind to get hard mode ready let alone geared enough to be viable for Ops (raids). Perhaps that is causing players to stray, again I'm not sure.

The problem I'm having personally is decaring a main. I have a 50 bounty hunter that I kind of lost interest in because I'm having more fun on my inquisitor. I'm also leving a warrior with friends, so I dont know. I am anxious to see the end game content, I live for raids. I think a lot of people are still trying out different classes and hopefully everyone will come around and hopefully then we can get some 8 mans going at least. Once we have a successful run I know more people will want to participate. As the empire pve officer I'm doing everything I can to keep people progressing.

I think your idea of a LBGT channel is very interesting and I will present it to the officer's meeting on Sunday. Thank you again for this post. And please be vocal about any other ideas you have. I offer you my full support if you'd like to do any pve events or anything you think might get more players online. My characters names are Maduin, Dendaius, and Rybo.

I'm sure my post will not be looked at kindly. These are my thoughts coming from a member and x officer of KoS.

The problem is with the leadership who sit on the sidelines and do not play the game. They want the guild run a certain way but that way won't work and hasn't worked. Every time an officer joins the ranks, and I think we've had what 5-6 turn over's in officers, the new officers are not able to make changes that benefit the guild and help it grow. Remember, how you run a guild in another game may not work in SW:ToR.

Folks are leaving the guild to join other guilds that are active and supportive. I know there are some that say it's the members,,,,,,,,well when your active members leave what do you? Not much really. You need a strong leadership that will jump in and get things going and when things don't go well admit to the mistakes, fix the mistakes and move on.

Recently (last week) we had two of the best officers leave the guild to join other guilds. These two officers would hold weekly guild runs for everything from datacrons to HM's. That is the kind of leadership the guild needed to survive. Not a leadership filled with toons who rarely if ever play the game.

As for a LGBT chat channel there is one that is sadly as quiet as guild chat. From my understanding there is bad feelings among the LGBT community in SW:ToR towards KoS. I only have the way other guilds treat KoS members and from a few things I've heard from others in the LGBT community. This is very disheartening as we face this kind of stuff in real life.

At this point I don't think there is any magic fix for the guild. You are correct, there are very few members on at a time and very little interaction among the membership. For the most part KoS (not sure about LoS) is just a guild to join until you reach your mid to upper 40's then you leave for a more active guild. It's just the way it goes sometimes.

The Empire side is not like that, Van. I'm sorry to hear things are rough on the other side. I dont play over there so I dont know. I'm going to see what I can do. In the mean time, I'd appreciate if you try to be a move positive influence. All it takes is one person to get the ball rolling.

Quote by Rybo

The Empire side is not like that, Van. I'm sorry to hear things are rough on the other side. I dont play over there so I dont know. I'm going to see what I can do. In the mean time, I'd appreciate if you try to be a move positive influence. All it takes is one person to get the ball rolling.

I've tried to be as positive as I can when I log into the game. With the two officers that left we would always chat in the KOS channel, try to be upbeat and do what would could to keep things rolling.

Yes I know my posts here seem to be less the positive but they are more out fustration then anything.

I've decided to put my republic toons on hold for awhile and focus on my empire side toons. If there is a guild event I will log in with my toon still in the guild and help out if needed. So if you don't see me on as much this is the reason.

First I'd just like to reassure everyone that even if I end up being the only active member of this guild it will carry on, lol. Luckily we are nowhere near that stage yet, and this lull in activity just needs the combined effort of all of us to turn it around.

Secondly, I am well aware of the problems we are having and why they started. We suffered a schism when former WoW players and former STO players could not agree on who should lead the guild and so we have been facing hostility from former members (and current members who have heard the "rumours" started by former members) for a while. I'd again like to point out that this was an issue of control post launch and those members were happy here before and with our plans. We will not retaliate or let ourselves be bullied. I'm just sorry that you all got caught up with that issue and that those tactics designed to ruin our community spirit seem to be still causing problems for us.

We have had a high turn over of officers, and it is disappointing to see people volunteer to do a job and then quit a week later. The reason for this is not the other leadership though, each officer is given control of their own part of the guild and offered any help they need. However we can't make people attend events, and so it is hard for officers to accomodate the need for endgame co-operation when very few people show up. We suffered a huge dent in our morale when the schism happened and certain people thought they would post negative comments about myself and other members as a way to get what they want. I will tell you all what I told them... I am always here to take suggestions and advice on how to make everyone happy and improve the guild... If anyone has a practical suggestion please let me know.

We have no problems with any other guilds in SW:TOR on the JekkJekkTarr server except one, and only because that one was started in an attempt to personally attack us and make us look bad. I have to say that if everyone just gives up, then they will have been successful, but it will have been a cruel way to start a new community, by trying to climb over another.

We are currently planning a joint Pride celebration with our allied guilds in the server and will post details once we know what is happening. There are a number of "cross-guild" chat channels that are never used as every other guild has them. We prefer to focus on our own members and getting back our sence of community first. We have not lost a lot of members, and the ones we have lost joined the guild late. They all seem to have come from another guild in a different game and so it is natural for them to play with their friends who had tried to take over KoS but were forced to start their own guild when that failed. I'm glad they gave us a chance and we are sorry to see them go.

The fact is that even though we have removed unknown and inactive characters from the guilds we still have almost the same number of members as we always had, and none of them seem to want to leave. They are just not playing as much now as they reach endgame, and the novelty of the game fades, but they will be back. This happens in every game and our size has just made it more apparent. We can't expect our members to spend all their free time in-game, but we will see a steady increase in activity as everyone finds a particular time to play and interact with their friends here.

We do need to step up our efforts to help our members get what they want from this guild, and for that we need volunteers to help and come up with ideas. I will be opening up the role of Republic PvE Officer tonight for anyone to apply for and I suggest that if anyone wants to help they apply for it.

I don't know why the Republic side of the guild in-game is having trouble communicating. We have looked at all the issues surrounding the chat channels logging people etc. We don't have this problem on the Empire side and it has puzzled us. The only thing that people regularly mention is that one or two people have been rude and overly negative on the Republic side, and so the members we asked said they would rather not get involved with those people and so don't talk at all. I can't blame them, but I would like to remind everyone that this is why the officers are here, to listen to what is bothering you and make the changes necessary. If we don't know what is wrong and what you want from us, we can't fix it. If anyone is disappointed with the leadership for not doing enough, then I can only ask them to join the leadership and make a difference.

First off, the 2 individuals that recently left were not officers. It would have been nice to know why they chose to leave but we don't have the benefit of knowing that. They did plan many events but as Zepari said, we can't force people to attend or participate in anything. I think the primary frustration of the 2 that left was the small attendance at the events they planned. This is not the fault of the leadership, even though the leadership is a convenient place to throw blame. Others have tried to plan events but it all comes down to how many people chose to participate and that participation is squarely on ALL members. If members aren't going to be active, it doesn't matter how active the leadership is or isn't. The blame is on all of us. We ALL must increase our activity, not expect someone else to do it for us and then blame everyone else for what doesn't happen. Nothing is going to happen instantaneously or even within a few weeks. Unfortunately that's what people seem to be expecting and they're setting themselves up for disappointment because of it.

As someone who has contributed to this problem of inactivity in KoS I thought it might help to share my perspective.

Long Story Short: Perhaps it is different on the Empire side (and it's a shame we have to be in two separate silos in the first place), but I just never got the same vibe that I felt during my pre-SWTOR days in Stonewall on STO.

Long Story:

I mostly played Republic, and during my time the really active people I teamed up the most (who were former STO friends, happened to be on at the same times, had toons around the same level, were always fun to be around (not uptight), welcoming, regularly doing flashpoints/instances etc.) decided to separate themselves from KoS. Regardless of why, the ripple effect was that it made things kind of awkward for me because I didn't really have any other KoS friends to fall back on that were around my same level. So-to-speak, the rug was "force-pulled" from under my feet.

Personally, I prefer to be part of a larger guild (like Stonewall) where you can have your "clique" or the folks you regularly play with, but then there are enough other guildies around to help fill empty slots in teams, which in turn helps to build new relationships. While it's noble to start a new guild, unless everyone lives in the same time zone and has the same schedule it gets lonely pretty fast. While we have our share of drama, Stonewall is still a collection of the most level-headed, generous and kind gamers I have ever met (even the folks I'm not personal friends with). I tried to get to know folks in other gay guilds like Rough Trade but frankly I found the people there to be too vulgar and/or mean (and for those of you who know me, it takes a lot for me to think something crosses the line). In other words, Stonewall is still the best.

There were a few reasons why I quit the game:

I was noticing that a lot of folks I befriended one week would be gone the next regardless of it was due to "drama," cancelling their "sub," technical issues etc. It got old investing time/energy getting to know someone only for them to disappear. To be frank, I want to play a game to have fun, not feel depressed. Some games playing alone is ok, but SWTOR is not one of those games IMO.

Coincidentally around the same time I just got tired with SWTOR. Zep pretty much nailed it; I was just one of those people where the novelty wore off. While all MMO's are repetitive, I raised my JK to 40-something and I just lost interest in seeing it through to the end because every mission felt the same and it started to really bug me that bad guys just stand around in a field. Sure, I could start another character class, but without other friends around to do missions with I didn't see much of a point.

I also didn't like the physiological effect that paying a subscription fee does to me. I feel that I have to play as much as possible to get the most out of my $15. And then if I didn't feel completely satisfied with my gaming experience then the money was wasted. At least with being a lifer on STO I can play in whatever short spurts I want without feeling I left money on the table (I have more than received my money's worth).

It also didn't help that I started playing Skyrim. Playing with myself has never felt better (that statement came out wrong, maybe I'll come back and edit it later ;) ). I've probably put in 100 hours and am still finding new/interesting things to do at my own pace. And then once I'm done with that game I have Mass Effect 3 to look forward to. Long story short, I have been enjoying my "offline" time.

Just to throw in my two cents to the issue at hand: I wouldn't hate the players, hate the game. If there isn't anything going on or other people around willing to team up then what is the incentive to stick around? While I may have a deep loyalty to Stonewall and have no plans to change my allegiance, at $15/month it is asking quite a lot for folks to wait around hoping things will improve. That's too high of a price I'm willing to pay considering the alternatives that are available to me. I doubt I'm the only person who feels that way.

Hi all I am fairly new so havent seen the dramatic attendence drop some have mentioned. The one thing I can comment on is the lack of yapping it up in our general kos (republic side channel).

I purposely started playing my repub account more because of that, but honestly it has been kinda dead in typed chat of late. I still got my empire account and a couple 50's and crafting hoard on that side which I have been ignoring, but it was mostly because I found the republic side to be doing more datacron runs etc with romyta et al.

An perhaps becasue I havent been playing my empire 50's of late I am missing out there .. lol .. decisions decisions .. if only they let us just have one GIANT guild no matter which side, hmm like say eq2 ... come on bioware dont force friend separation .. I mean they give us 8 slots per account that is only technically one of each type for one side .. I get the whole feel of imp vs pub ... but its hard for guild folks to operate in a friendly way that way .. and friends are what sells MMO's.

Quote by colivia

Playing with myself has never felt better (that statement came out wrong, maybe I'll come back and edit it later ;) ).

I dont have anything to contribute, but just in case he choosed to try editing that away. B)

Well for me I was on vacation two weeks ago and I'm just getting over a really bad cold where the thought of getting on a computer made me sick so I'll be back on tomorrow... that'll be one number up on Republic side :)

Well, it is just a guess, but I think a lot of people just stopped playing, or at least playing regularly. I mean, I don't want to step on anyone's toes, and this is just my 2 cents, but IMVPO the MMO SWTOR just didn't turn out as great as I hoped. I mean, I was a really, really but Bioware RPG fan. But I have to admit with Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3 Bioware under EA went a bit a way I can't really follow. And I feel like SWTOR is also overshadowed by this. Now I don't want to start a long winded analysis, but I think it is clear Bioware sort of failed to make the Triple AAA success, given the money, time and experience involved SWTOR should and could have been.

I mean, I had a blast levelling a Jedi Knight and a Sith Assasin to level 50 and some to ~ lv. 30, but I feel that is as much story and entertainment I see here. There are essentially no sandbox elements whatsoever to really spent time, and the social aspect is just really a failure. Sorry to be blunt, but this is how I feel about it. I loved the 3-4 months I was here, but I feel no longer the draw and I just don't have the opportunity and dedication for endgame gear grind.

I do not want to just vanish, and I will try out the 1.2 patch, but from what I read I am 80% sure not to stay long after it. I plan to come back in half a year or what, when I hear SWTOR has made REAL progress. If. Atm I have my doubt. I really love you Stonewall people, but overall I play games for the fun, not to sit silently on the Fleet waiting for something to happen. Something very fundamental in this game went wrong IMVPO. Being the big Star Wars fan and liking the Stonewall-guild alot, I hope Bioware can fix it, but it seems more a matter of a LONG time they need, given the "speed" of changes I see in the game now. I really, really hope it all gets better. *sigh*

Thanks Elikal for your astute observations about SWTOR. I agree with you completely as I feel it has been way to easy for people to get to level 50 in such a short period of time. This probably caught Bioware totally unaware and they aren't recovering any too quickly. The only reason I don't have any 50s yet is because I am such a confirmed altoholic and haven't worked on any 1 toon for an extended period of time. I truly hope Bioware figures something out soon or they face the loss of a lot of people and that would be way too sad indeed. :blink:

Thanks Elikal, you have hit the nail on the head. Luckily I'm being forced by time constraints to level up slowly and so I've yet to run out of things to do, lol.

Thank you for saying you like us, we like you too!

We had this problem 2 years ago with Star Trek Online, which is why I'm not letting any of the critics of this guild bother me. In fact, this is one of the main reasons why we created Knights of Stonewall, and why we may have a presence in other games in future. We liked the community here and when STO was lacking in content, members were talking about playing other games. I for one was not optimistic about finding another group of people I got on with as well as this one, so I didn't see why I should have to when I started playing SW:TOR.

The problem in STO was shortlived and before long the fleet stabilised and the game improved. The members who stopped playing soon found themselves back playing and I know the same will happen with SW:TOR. Even if you don't feel like playing SW:TOR for a long time, this community is growing and I'm glad you are staying here to share in everything with us.

For me I'm still finding a lot of game content to experience and have fun with. Patch 1.2 will add a lot more stuff so I'm excited about that. I'm leveling up a sith inquisitor now and that has opened up a whole new perspective on the game. On my republic toon I'm grping with friends for heroic dailies, FPs and gearing up for OPS (which they are already doing, I'm just slow)

I think everyone will find an MMO that is for them. Some MMO's are better then others and some are just a mild distraction until the next MMO. Folks decide what works for them and what doesn't.

I find that SW:ToR does lend itself to a more solo environment then other games. The option to grp up for quests, fp's and social fun is there if you decide to partake in it. Also, having friends to grp with adds another layer to the game. Again it all depends on what you want out of an mmo and how you pursue that.

For now I'm having a blast and I know my buddies in game are also enjoying themselves as we exchange questing stories, PVP headaches and how we so want to date are companions.

We all are looking forward to all that SW:ToR will implement over the coming months.

Am i the only one in the game without reaching 50? :blush:

Quote by Seannewboy

Am i the only one in the game without reaching 50? :blush:

It took me the longest time to get my JK to 50. There is so much to do in game, stories to go thru that it's a shame that folks hurry to 50. Usually those that are racing to 50 in a brand new mmo end up saying "gee there is nothing left to do" once they reach max level. Enjoy the climb to 50 and don't worry about how long it takes.

I remember WoW when it first came out, folks raced to 60 in the first month and then complained that the game had nothing for them to do. (at that time there was no completed raid instance, MC had 2-3 bosses and was still not completed) WoW has had 7 years to dump content into the game and some of it was good and some not so good.

P.S. sorry for kind of taking the post off course

I don't have a 50 yet either. I enjoy wandering around looking at the scenery too much, lol.

I am the confirmed altoholic and the highest level I have is a 32 at the moment. I can't even decide on a main as I am enjoying all the story lines for all my toons. I never have to work out of rested xp, as soon as I get to the end of rested xp I simply move on to the next toon and continue on. :)