Splitting KoS into Sub Guilds?

Honestly, there were a couple of times if someone were around to help during my leveling to 10, I would have been happy to take the help. There was one quest in particular I had to wait a couple of levels above where I should have been. I think it was just too hard for the level they specified. They're constantly fiddling difficulties; I've found that out several times along the way, most recently on a class quest that I had been working on for 4 levels and could not complete until they patched it, and it was magically easy.

I know that this isn't going to be exactly like STO. But it's a similar group of people working toward a similar goal. As far as I know, there was no problem with guild size there (or maybe I just missed it). But apparently on SWTOR there is. We're going to have to cross this bridge sooner or later, so we might as well address it now, especially since we're not sure who is and isn't active not even 4 weeks into the release. If this system doesn't work, things can still be done in the future to improve it.

I'm curious, maybe I'm missing something, but what else does splitting the guild do other than make people talk on the Stonewall forum instead of just the Guild chat? That's the only major difference that I can think of that most people would see (well, that and the name that appears above your character). I know in STO, Klingons and Federation talked on the same channel, and it never seemed to be too much chatter; maybe the membership was lower, I'm not the one who has that answer. But based on what I see in guild chat now, even multiplying it by 3 or 4 wouldn't make it overwhelming. Most of the time there isn't chat going on, and when there is, it's usually just a few interested individuals or people just saying hi. Captains/Officers should have multiple characters and should able to easily move among the guilds to add/assist people as needed.

Quote by Experian

Q, no one in this game should need any help getting to lvl 10. And I am no longer a hardcore gamer, I am more of a social gamer now (as I stated that is what I think of KoS is, a social leveling guild).

Because of the fan base Star Wars has in general this MMO is attracting people who have never actually played an MMO before and those who have. I live in house full of gamers (literally... Mother in-law (50's), father in-law(40's), brother in-law(12)). So I personally seen people struggle with things I thought normally people didn't and it was an eye opener for me.

Quote by Experian

As for the leadership, the only leadership I ever witnessed came from Doogie and he left due to the same reasons I left.

There were some role assignment issues when the game first started and they are being worked on. Nothing clear as far as what has happened has been posted (which I think should as the assumptions all over aren't helping us move forward) but leadership is actively recruiting both Officers and Captains to assist members.

Quote by Experian

And what works for one game does not always work for another. So therefore, what worked for STO won't work 100% for SWTOR. STO in my opinion was not a good MMO to begin with, that is why I cancelled my subscription to it less than one month after buying it.

You are correct what works for one game doesn't work for all of them which personally makes me chuckle because everyone backing for why this wont work is because it didn't in other games.

This situation needed to be addressed quick and anyone even outside of an mmo that has tried to get 100's of people to agree on something that had very little time to decide knows that wasn't going to work. So the Officers knowing we were running out of space quickly stepped up and said here is a solution. I'm sure they could have posted it and said please decide but had they done that and it continued the time of this thread we would be at cap and having people complain because there isn't room for their friends or alts.

Quote by Experian

And just to make myself clear, I am not resentful or trying to be hateful. I am merely trying to convey what not just I think, but from what a larger group of people have said to me as well. That is why I had witnessed many people leaving the guild before me, why I left the guild, and I am sure others are going to leave as well. A proper guild leadership involves the members in massive decisions, not just the "officers". And one more thing, nothing this drastic had to be done so abruptly. Again, it is just a game.

I can see you aren't trying to be hateful and I appreciate you expressing the concerns of people who haven't done so themselves. It made me sad to see people leave the guild over this but if that's what they had to do to make a better gaming experience for themselves than so be it.

Quote by QiqJoe

I'm curious, maybe I'm missing something, but what else does splitting the guild do other than make people talk on the Stonewall forum instead of just the Guild chat? That's the only major difference that I can think of that most people would see (well, that and the name that appears above your character). I know in STO, Klingons and Federation talked on the same channel, and it never seemed to be too much chatter; maybe the membership was lower, I'm not the one who has that answer. But based on what I see in guild chat now, even multiplying it by 3 or 4 wouldn't make it overwhelming. Most of the time there isn't chat going on, and when there is, it's usually just a few interested individuals or people just saying hi. Captains/Officers should have multiple characters and should able to easily move among the guilds to add/assist people as needed.

The only things that changed is that people will be needing to talk in Stonewall channel rather than Guild Chat. The guilds are still be maintained and run by the same people. The guilds still follow the same rules. We just now have two instead of one.

You are correct in the fact that most Captains/Officers all have alts in all the guilds so we can switch and invite as needed.

I do not understand the problem with just the officer having discussed this issue. If this was a place of business the employees would not be able to talk to the owner or bosses about what or how something is going to happen, it just happens. No discussion or talking to the employees, sometimes they might give a heads up, not always. It is usually this is going to happen. If you are paying attention you know what is going to happen before it does happen. I personally do not really play the republic side. Mayhem and slaughter is my kind of mode and I had seen the split coming. You could tell by the size of the guild; this was something that had to happen. Some people want to say you can not join the guild until this level, do you know how much it sucks trying to get to that level knowing you are going to be in a certain guild and have no one to talk to? It sucks big time. Some say wait to split the guild until you have it under control. So when other people want to join the guild and it is full you tell them what? We'll put you on a waiting list and get back to you. I know none of you know me, I do know what my reaction to being told that I was going to be put on a waiting list to get into a guild would be. It would be to tell them no thanks I will find some place else that will take me now. With a couple of F U and maybe a go to hell in there. This game will be attracting a lot of people just because of the name. Some people will be put of by the way questing goes. I was told that by some here at work they can not stand the game for that reason. People will come and go like all games. Funny thing is I have been wanting to look into sto since I have join this guild. Sorry went off topic but point being not everything should be up for everyone to talk about. Sometimes it just needs to be done.

Quote by Taher

I do not understand the problem with just the officer having discussed this issue. If this was a place of business the employees would not be able to talk to the owner or bosses about what or how something is going to happen, it just happens. No discussion or talking to the employees, sometimes they might give a heads up, not always.

Sure, as long as I'm getting paid I wouldn't mind any change at all and then jump on to the next corporation as soon as they pay me 50 cents more along with my customer portfolio. But this is not a corporation or a fascist Middle East dictatorship. It's a community for liberal minded people standing up against oppression. "Stonewall" anyone? I am glad that the guild leadership doesn't share your views on this matter and as far as I know they are working hard to come up with a better solution.

Quote by Taher

It is usually this is going to happen. If you are paying attention you know what is going to happen before it does happen.

So you knew about all of this before? Man wish we all had your insight. :)

Quote by cruist22

Quote by Taher

I do not understand the problem with just the officer having discussed this issue. If this was a place of business the employees would not be able to talk to the owner or bosses about what or how something is going to happen, it just happens. No discussion or talking to the employees, sometimes they might give a heads up, not always.

Sure, as long as I'm getting paid I wouldn't mind any change at all and then jump on to the next corporation as soon as they pay me 50 cents more along with my customer portfolio. But this is not a corporation or a fascist Middle East dictatorship. It's a community for liberal minded people standing up against oppression. "Stonewall" anyone? I am glad that the guild leadership doesn't share your views on this matter and as far as I know they are working hard to come up with a better solution.

Quote by Taher

It is usually this is going to happen. If you are paying attention you know what is going to happen before it does happen.

So you knew about all of this before? Man wish we all had your insight. :)

I think his point more was the fact that when they had to make a quick decision a large majority jumped on them. This will have to happen from time to time. No decision is every going to make everyone happy. All the leadership can do is hope you trust in them enough and know that they have everyone's best intention in mind.

First this is a business weather you get paid or not. The officer and guild leaders put time into it, they don't get paid for either. They pretty much pay for a game they probably do not get to enjoy as much as the rest of us because of all the complains they are getting.

Common sense should have told you that a sub guild was going to happen there. I could not have told you how they were going to do it. It did not take much to figure out it was going to happen with 450+ members in one guild when the limit is 500.

Quote by Taher

First this is a business weather you get paid or not. The officer and guild leaders put time into it, they don't get paid for either. They pretty much pay for a game they probably do not get to enjoy as much as the rest of us because of all the complains they are getting.

I think you are seriously confused as to what consists of a business and what makes a community. None of the guild officers are being forced to "serve" anyone here but they are volunteering their time. Volunteering for a community (which is how it's defined all over this very website), is based on personal choice and it may not be used to rub it on a member's face as a leverage. Again, thanks god none of the officers here are as inconsiderate as that, the way you want them to act. It seems you don't truly know the meaning of our guild's name and what it's based on.

Quote by Taher

Common sense should have told you that a sub guild was going to happen there. I could not have told you how they were going to do it. It did not take much to figure out it was going to happen with 450+ members in one guild when the limit is 500.

Common sense also told me when I joined the Knights of Stonewall, "the Flagship guild and a trademark", I wouldn't be forced to leave the guild to open up space for a newcomer.

Quote by cruist22

Common sense also told me when I joined the Knights of Stonewall, "the Flagship guild and a trademark", I wouldn't be forced to leave the guild to open up space for a newcomer.

So would that be representing the community you stated before? We can't be a community and always just think of ourselves. If everyone in Stonewall during the riot had only thought of themselves they wouldn't have been a unit and it wouldn't be a part of history.

Quote by Justjon

So would that be representing the community you stated before? We can't be a community and always just think of ourselves. If everyone in Stonewall during the riot had only thought of themselves they wouldn't have been a unit and it wouldn't be a part of history.

Alright, so let's see everyone else make that sacrifice first before asking others and have the newcomers run the Knights of Stonewall where every officer leaves the guild to open up space. I'm sure the newcomers will run the guild just as good as anyone else.

Then I will follow you to the gates of Hades if you can pull this off and set an example.

Since those who aren't happy with it aren't being forced to move and those who were willing to assist have moved making room for more Knight/Consulars everyone should be happy.

Quote by NicholasJohn16

The switch won't be forced or required. We'll simply be asking those willing to switch their non-force characters over to Soldiers of Stonewall.

So does that mean I finally have reason to start picking out a cadence? If so I am pumped lol.

I don't think anyone expected our guild to grow so quickly. Until Bioware decides to remove the 500 members limit, we either split the guild or we stop creating alts. I only have one toon above level 1 at the moment, so i'm glad i'll still be able to join the guild with my future toons. It will be annoying not being able to look up someones level/class/forum-name/guild-rank, but i'll learn to live with it.

Separating the in game guild based on force and non-force is a good idea. My first toon on the republic side will be a trooper, so Soldiers of Stonewall sounds better than Knights of Stonewall.

My main - and only toon i'm playing at the moment - is on the Imperial side. I've never felt bad about being in Lords of Stonewall in stead of Knights of Stonewall, because it is the same guild with a different set of alts.

Once a new name has been chosen for our guild then the names KoS/LoS/SoS will be on the same level.

Quote by intristin

So anyever, I will be pulling both of my toons from the guild. I love you all and will miss you. To all my buddies, I'll be on the server so you know how to get in touch with me.

I honestly don't know how much farther behind you I am with that. I will be honest in saying it bugs me there still hasn't been an official statement just a whole bunch of them here and there about this on this thread.

There really has been no explanation officially other than rumored (which I hate) as to what happened with the leadership. I'm really trying to help and stick this out but if the guilds going to built around drama in the first few weeks that doesn't seem to be addressed itself. I'm not really sure if I'd want to be a part of it.


My Recap:
What I've gathered so far is a whole bunch of leadership screwed the other leadership that were here by not being here (which honestly not a good start). Then the other leadership got overwhelmed with too much to do so they banded together together to try to fix it all (which is awesome but we were affected too). So then a member gets wind of a new guild the beans get spilled and I think 15 pages later the mess continues to be cleaned up.

What I'd like:
Someone to explain what the heck is going on! I don't mean hey let's throw a post here. I mean make a post take an initiative to communicate. Inform us of why everything happened up until this point and what is being done to resolve it. (that is what you do in true clean up of messes)

Quote by Justjon

Since those who aren't happy with it aren't being forced to move and those who were willing to assist have moved making room for more Knight/Consulars everyone should be happy.

Quote by NicholasJohn16

The switch won't be forced or required. We'll simply be asking those willing to switch their non-force characters over to Soldiers of Stonewall.

That quote was only communicated today and along with your official comment above, it labels anyone who's not a force wielder and refusing to switch as "non cooperative/not willing to assit" member. Translation: "jerks". I didn't want to be labeled as a jerk and didn't want to wait till being kicked out so I left. But I will never join anything with a name "soldier" on it so I'm left in limbo.

I actually quoted that from page 10 of the thread
http://www.knightsofstonewall.com/forums/cantina/38410-splitting-kos-into-sub-guilds?limit=6&start=54#38545

Which is why an official post should have been made somewhere as the information scattered in this one isn't helping anyone.

Quote by Justjon

I actually quoted that from page 10 of the thread
http://www.knightsofstonewall.com/forums/cantina/38410-splitting-kos-into-sub-guilds?limit=6&start=54#38545

Which is why an official post should have been made somewhere as the information scattered in this one isn't helping anyone.

Yes, that's less than 24 hours ago.

Quote by cruist22

Quote by Justjon

I actually quoted that from page 10 of the thread
http://www.knightsofstonewall.com/forums/cantina/38410-splitting-kos-into-sub-guilds?limit=6&start=54#38545

Which is why an official post should have been made somewhere as the information scattered in this one isn't helping anyone.

Yes, that's less than 24 hours ago.

Oh haha I dont know my days tend to blend.

I have read through the 15 pages that exist before my post here. I agree that there are issues that need to be looked at and addressed.

However, this entire thread was started 2 days and 16 hours ago. If I'm not entirely mistaken, the actual guild split hasn't even been announced or implemented yet. Yes, some people got wind of it and have commented on it. Nick, as well as officers have commented in this thread trying to answer some of the concerns. However, Zep hasn't made any official announcement.

Sometimes people act impulsively out of an emotional reaction to a situation or a perceived situation. I'm guilty of this too at times. To anyone, I would ask that they try to wait until Zepari has made an official announcement about the split and about the issues that people have brought up before they make any decisions about what they should do.

Quote by Justjon

What I'd like:
Someone to explain what the heck is going on! I don't mean hey let's throw a post here. I mean make a post take an initiative to communicate. Inform us of why everything happened up until this point and what is being done to resolve it. (that is what you do in true clean up of messes)

UPDATE: Knights of Stonewall Update - January 2012 here.

Zep has been hard at work at a "State of the Guild" post. Since the post represents all of the Officers, he wanted the sign off from all of them. While I very well understand that we, as gamers are used to instant gratification, it is a small challenge (but one we need to deal with) when we are split into time zones nearly half a day apart.

My understanding is that Zep has every intention for the official post to go up at some point today.

Quote by kiddkasper

I have read through the 15 pages that exist before my post here. I agree that there are issues that need to be looked at and addressed.

However, this entire thread was started 2 days and 16 hours ago. If I'm not entirely mistaken, the actual guild split hasn't even been announced or implemented yet. Yes, some people got wind of it and have commented on it. Nick, as well as officers have commented in this thread trying to answer some of the concerns. However, Zep hasn't made any official announcement.

Sometimes people act impulsively out of an emotional reaction to a situation or a perceived situation. I'm guilty of this too at times. To anyone, I would ask that they try to wait until Zepari has made an official announcement about the split and about the issues that people have brought up before they make any decisions about what they should do.

Just wanted to give kudos to Kidd, he's been amazing on the Imperial side. I completely agree with what was said, folks need to take a step back and see what the final outcome is.
Don't leave the guild now, we've only been discussing this for 2 days and by the looks of it nothing seems to be set in stone.