Splitting KoS into Sub Guilds?

Quote by intristin

Quote by ryyven

Jedi: *Swings menacing lightsaber, hands flashing with uber-cool force powers*

Smuggler: *runs up and kicks him in the nuts before swinging round and blasting him with a shotgun in the back of the head*

'nuff said

HA, yea yea, I admit, it's a nice trick. But you have to get in close. My Force armor will block your sad little baster, my force wave will knock you off the side of a cliff. And while you laying in a pool of your own blood, I use the force to drop a large rock on your head and finish you off. FEEL THE FORCE, BITCH!! Mauhahahahahah

Intrinsin, don't tell my husband but I think I love you for this...
Priceless moment!!!!!

(Invalid video video code)

Troopers for the win.

'Nuff said, or do we need another Jedi Genocide to prove the point? :laugh:

(All in good fun, boys and girls, all in good fun... okay good fun and miniguns).

Ok, however lets look at the facts here that the troopers needed to gang up in large numbers to take out each Jedi, or they had to take them out by surprise when they were in their vehicles. Not once do I see a single soldier or even 2 soldiers take out a jedi on the ground. It's always groups of them ganging up because they know that they will get cut down (Like yoda does to the soliders out to kill him) if they don't have superior numbers or surprise (ideally both) on their side.

Quote by SorenStarkiller

Cruist,

I am glad you joined our guild for starters, but remember that this is not a complete seperation. There will be nothing holding you back from grouping with your Jedi friends. I know it may seem like a harsh serparation but both guild will be linked by the same players as well as on the Stonewall chat lines. We will encourage cross guild grouping.

My own fiance' is a Jedi and I am a Smuggler so I know exactly what you mean about being perfectly matched for each other. I know that any time I want to join him on a story mission or to help him catch up on a particularly hard planet we just need to message each other. I am friends with players from other guilds, such as our ally guild Rough Trade, and it doesn't faze us that we aren't int he same exact guild sect. We all have a common goal, saving the galaxy from the tyrany of the Emporer and the Sith.

Yes I can message anyone I want on the Republic side and team up with them anytime. I can also make video conference daily with my mom in Dubai who doesn't know I'm gay, just like I team up with some players from other guilds. If I can't be with my own friend in the same guild I guess I can just go to any guild who doesn't discriminate me based on force and send you guys messages.

Since it hasn't been mentioned and so there is no confusion. I have stepped down as an officer. Thanks to everyone for all their help while I was an officer it was greatly appreciated. So that I could focus on game play and not play officer after I stepped down, I have removed my toons from KOS/LOS. I will still be ingame, but I will be playing with some friends in a small guild. I am available to team up if you would like.

I am not totally gone, I still have toons in SWF and will be around. Just need a break.

Thanks

Doogiegood

Quote by Cencid

My main concern with this is Guild Capital Ships. In addition to the Ships, there may be a perk system similar to WoW, which includes guild leveling and abilities. One guild is going to have more active members than the other which will lead to obtaining these perks faster and will make it "better than" the other.

Has having one guild for main characters and another guild(s) for alt characters been discussed?

As far as I am aware this solution is more of a what can we do based off what we have now. As we are one unit it is being looked at that way. Right now guilds have no benefit other than guild chat and a title. When/If they release a perk system then the situation will have to be revisited as far as balance and the player base we have at that time. I know from what I have seen and heard it is always what is better for everyone. So if a guild imbalance is had and a perk system is release we will figure out how to balance it so all of our members benefit as equally as possible.

I also realized today that by having guild names similar to our classes we are attracting people to us from starting areas and while venturing to class quests. So ultimately this system I believe is going to benefit our growth even more in the long run. We are 3 weeks into the game at this point at the rate at which we are growing I honestly wouldn't doubt if we had to get another guild by the time any other perks were released.

Hopefully Bioware will improve some of the in game statistical part of the guild information. As this will help a lot when it comes to figuring out what is best. I think in order to be prepared for the future though we just need to keep the line of communication open and continue to direct people to the website. This will help any future changes be able to be discussed and resolved easier.

Just to point something out quickly, I noticed that there is no way to know when was the last time a character was logged on.
It's probably going to be a small nightmare when the time comes to start pruning the guild roster for inactives.

Anyway, I hope you guys have started thinking of a name for the Imp side...I heard there was a backup guild named Masters of Stonewall, perhaps we poor little imps could get it for our BHs and IAs :P

Quote by Sidanis

Just to point something out quickly, I noticed that there is no way to know when was the last time a character was logged on.
It's probably going to be a small nightmare when the time comes to start pruning the guild roster for inactives.

Anyway, I hope you guys have started thinking of a name for the Imp side...I heard there was a backup guild named Masters of Stonewall, perhaps we poor little imps could get it for our BHs and IAs :P

See and here I was thinking Legion of Stonewall hehe.

Quote by Justjon

Quote by Sidanis

Just to point something out quickly, I noticed that there is no way to know when was the last time a character was logged on.
It's probably going to be a small nightmare when the time comes to start pruning the guild roster for inactives.

Anyway, I hope you guys have started thinking of a name for the Imp side...I heard there was a backup guild named Masters of Stonewall, perhaps we poor little imps could get it for our BHs and IAs :P

See and here I was thinking Legion of Stonewall hehe.

Oooh. I likey. But that's just me. Seems fitting!

I have family in town from out of state for my Mom's 75th birthday this weekend so I'm playing catch up here.

Why are we not just creating a sub guild and adding new members there? Also we can give current members of KoS the option of moving to the new guild but splitting the current KoS guild by Class is something that really concerns me. That's not what I signed up for.

I did a lot of research and reading on these forums weeks before the game was released to decide which guild to join. I joined here and I've been very happy so far and have enjoyed getting to know several new friends. Now I can't be in KoS because I'm a trooper?? Honestly, this makes me feel very alienated and segregated from the guildies that I've been playing with and getting to know over the last month.

If I'm in a different guild from my friend that is playing another class I can't look in the guild roster and see if they are on-line or look at the in game notes to remind me of their forum name. With so many new people in a new game this is the only way currently we have in game to keep track of who we're talking too, especially with everyone having multiple alts.

At least let the people that are already in KoS stay there and just start filling up the new guild. It makes more sense all around and it's less work for the officers.

Maybe I'm just tired and this is catching me totally off-guard but splitting current guild members in two makes no sense to me. In fact, it bothers me a lot.

BTW, if there is anything I can do to help in any way I will.

Quote by techjo

I have family in town from out of state for my Mom's 75th birthday this weekend so I'm playing catch up here.

Why are we not just creating a sub guild and adding new members there? Also we can give current members of KoS the option of moving to the new guild but splitting the current KoS guild by Class is something that really concerns me. That's not what I signed up for.

I did a lot of research and reading on these forums weeks before the game was released to decide which guild to join. I joined here and I've been very happy so far and have enjoyed getting to know several new friends. Now I can't be in KoS because I'm a trooper?? Honestly, this makes me feel very alienated and segregated from the guildies that I've been playing with and getting to know over the last month.

If I'm in a different guild from my friend that is playing another class I can't look in the guild roster and see if they are on-line or look at the in game notes to remind me of their forum name. With so many new people in a new game this is the only way currently we have in game to keep track of who we're talking too, especially with everyone having multiple alts.

At least let the people that are already in KoS stay there and just start filling up the new guild. It makes more sense all around and it's less work for the officers.

Maybe I'm just tired and this is catching me totally off-guard but splitting current guild members in two makes no sense to me. In fact, it bothers me a lot.

BTW, if there is anything I can do to help in any way I will.

This solution was made because even as we speak we literally have 19 spots open till we hit cap. With the game limitations in UI it makes a lot of things difficult. Like knowing who is active vs who isn't.

The big issue with new members going into another guild is the sense they are in an inactive guild or being secluded. This way you would hopefully have a good amount of people split between them at least at peak times. With putting alts in another guild it becomes a switching of whats a main what is an alt. Trying to pick a main (which someone like me and I know of a few others are leveling 6 characters almost side by side due to being invested in the story line) can be tough.

As far as helping they are currently recruiting for officers and Captains so I would suggest checking those threads out if you want the responsibility. Other than that the UI and Guild System really need some TLC and till they get some really no choice is going to be a clear correct one without some down falls equally to it.

Quote by techjo

Why are we not just creating a sub guild and adding new members there? Also we can give current members of KoS the option of moving to the new guild but splitting the current KoS guild by Class is something that really concerns me. That's not what I signed up for.

I did a lot of research and reading on these forums weeks before the game was released to decide which guild to join. I joined here and I've been very happy so far and have enjoyed getting to know several new friends. Now I can't be in KoS because I'm a trooper?? Honestly, this makes me feel very alienated and segregated from the guildies that I've been playing with and getting to know over the last month.

If I'm in a different guild from my friend that is playing another class I can't look in the guild roster and see if they are on-line or look at the in game notes to remind me of their forum name. With so many new people in a new game this is the only way currently we have in game to keep track of who we're talking too, especially with everyone having multiple alts.

At least let the people that are already in KoS stay there and just start filling up the new guild. It makes more sense all around and it's less work for the officers.

Maybe I'm just tired and this is catching me totally off-guard but splitting current guild members in two makes no sense to me. In fact, it bothers me a lot.

BTW, if there is anything I can do to help in any way I will.

If we were to do as you suggest and just create a new guild and start inviting new characters into it instead, would you not run into the same problems later (not being able to view the guild roster, see who's online and their in-game notes) when you create a new alt and have to be invited into the alt guild?

If we were to simply stop inviting new characters into Knights of Stonewall and only invite new characters into the new guild, wouldn't that mean new players just joining us aren't able to be in Knights of Stonewall just because they didn't join in the first month? Is that a better solution? If so, for you or the new members?

We won't be segregated. We still have Stonewall channel to talk between one another, organize groups and chat with our friends. For a guild as large as ours, we don't view the actual ingame guild as what we are. We span many different in-game guilds, factions and even games. Instead, we see the guild as the organization that binds us, in and out of the game, that we all are part of. Don't let the title above your character fool you, you're still a large part of Knights of Stonewall.

The switch won't be forced or required. We'll simply be asking those willing to switch their non-force characters over to Soldiers of Stonewall.

Techjo,

I'm sorry that you feel "alienated and segregated" from the friends you've made but I think that's more of a outlook problem and not actually to do with how we are settings things up.

We aren't breaking the community into two, it remains one whole guild and friendships made can still be nurtured the exact same way as before. Nothing is stopping anybody from playing with anybody they want to play with.

It sucks that you won't be able to see Member Notes, It sucks that you won't be able to look down a list and see who is online (Your friends list is handy for friends, btw) but these are small problems in an MMO environment. MMO's have been around a long time and member notes to identify who people are just didn't exist and yet people still managed to make friends and know who their alts are. You'll do it without effort, you get used to peoples names and how they talk.

As for this "Not being what you signed up for", I'm sorry if you feel that way but I full hearty disagree. You and the rest of our membership signed up so you can play their favourite MMO with a fantastic group of people. You can play without fear of harrasement, with as much openness as you want to have, in a complete casual no-pressure environment.

We deliver this to the best of our ability and will continue to do that until the end of days. Nothing has changed in this regard with the alt guilds.

I may not agree with the officers choice or think it's a good thought out plan but as a captain I'll support it. With that said my humble opinion is.....

Sorry I have to agree with others, not a good move to split the classes.

I know we are not "other" guilds but other guilds do exactly what has been mentioned...start a new guild and invite new members and alts to that one.

No one feels alienated or segregated or like they are not part of KoS when invited to the newly created over flow guild. And guess what...so folks missed out on joining KoS at the go live it happens as guilds grow.

Creating a new sub guild is the way to go and those joining never feel left out since everyone understands the cap limits on guilds.

We all stay connected via the stonewall channel (that is if folks will join it) so no one should feel like they are not part of the guild.

Thank you guys for the quick response and detailed information. There's a lot going on right now and unfortunately it's happening when for the first time since Early Access I can't be online every day due to family obligations.

Trust me, I understand the need for sub/alt guilds and cross guild chat. I have had multiple toons in both the Stonewall and Taint guilds on Proudmoore for years.

It might be a good idea to start a new thread with the decisions that have been made to this point and how it's going to work. I made it about half way through this very long thread last night before my eyes started burning and then had to start skimming. After reading through all of the discussion (and I'm glad we have such open discussion here, btw) my impression was that this wasn't a choice we were being given and that I would at some point log in to my Trooper or Smuggler and find them not in KoS anymore. This is the one aspect that really hit me the wrong way.

But this one line makes all the difference in the world:

NicholasJohn16 wrote:

The switch won't be forced or required. We'll simply be asking those willing to switch their non-force characters over to Soldiers of Stonewall.

Everyone appreciates being given a choice. Having the option to switch our characters ourselves after coordinating and communicating with our friends is an excellent idea. Thank you for that. I can move my non force classes to SoS if that will help even things out but thank you for giving me the freedom to choose instead of forcibly removing them.

Thank you for all your hard work keeping things under control through this hyper-accelerated growth. We all appreciate it. Excellent job!

EDIT: I don't know who picked it out but I really like the name Solders of Stonewall. B)
although, now I've got that ABBA song stuck in my head...

As the primary Republic Officer, I'd like to say that the "language" used in describing what his happening needs to be handled carefully.

I think some of the more 'experienced' officers, especially those that came from STO, out of habit refer to Soldiers of Stonewall, and what will be the Non-Force Imperial split as "alt" guilds.

I personally do not see it this way. Soldiers of Stonewall is not the "alt" guild. My primary character is a Trooper, as a Trooper, he's got nothing to do with the Jedi. If anything they're a tool (snicker) for the Republic to use to further their goals.

Soldiers of Stonewall and Knights of Stonewall and Lords of Stonewall are all co-equal "guilds."

I know people disagree for a number of reasons, and I can respect that everyone has their own opinion. I for one am excited about this method of 'splitting' the guild over how I've seen others do it in the past.

Why?

Well first off, new members aren't cut off from senior members in anyway. This will go a long way to reducing a view of favoritism or clique behavior. As a new member coming into a guild, I'd much prefer to log in and see a large active community on my roster, consisting of a large variety of levels then log in and see a dozen low-level characters I've been stuck with because I joined the guild 'too late.'

Same goes for alts. As a new player, I may start the game as one character, thinking it will be my primary, request membership into the guild, get 15 levels in, see something really cool in a groupmate's story arc. Wanting to experience it for myself, I roll up a new character, and find I am enjoying the story more, and start playing the 'alt' as a main; saving your original main for when I complete the 'alt's' story.

The final piece for me, is that as a Trooper, my guild title reflects the class I have chosen in some way. When getting in my characters head, I no longer feel like the Jedi's lapdog on loan from the Republic.

That said, if game mechanics are introduced that would turn this set up into a hindrance (because at the moment, mechanics do not), every Officer has said we will revisit this and work out a new solution so Stonewall isn't at a disadvantage.

I've heard two or three people mention Fleet Achievements that would be tied to classes in some way. Would anyone please be kind enough to share a link where BioWare has discussed this. Since it was originally mentioned I have been scouring the internet, in a slight state of panic, for any discussion of Fleet Achievements by anyone but fans migrating from another game, and have failed to do so.

So my gunslinger is being drafted into the Republic military as a Soldier of Stonewall?

Perhaps we need to make another guild for smugglers called Outlaws of Stonewall... :P

Quote by Jerath

So my gunslinger is being drafted into the Republic military as a Soldier of Stonewall?

Perhaps we need to make another guild for smugglers called Outlaws of Stonewall... :P

Ohh, I like that!

Quote by Experian

I would just like to state that I am the one who had the most issue with this split of the guild and the way that the "officers" and "GL" handled me the other day. I just simply stated that I thought this split (and still believe) this split is unnecessary. To be honest, I think it is derived from laziness to go through the list and figure out who is active and who is not. I offered my opinions on how to properly work through this issue of reaching the guild cap, and the response I got from Zepari was most insulting. I do understand that this is a game, but the KoS is just a social guild from what I have seen. To pull the guild apart at the seams, not smart. You can not expect people to speak only in Stonewall Channel, and what if someone decides to ambush that channel and spout off? You have no way of correcting that situation.
As I stated in GChat when we were informed that this was going to happen, you should impliment a lvl restriction for invite (and trust me, no one is going to feel abandoned or discriminated against because they have to get to lvl 10). That rule there would most likely decrease your numbers in half. If it is an active member's alt, but he/she is not playing it, it doesn't need to be in the guild until they decide to play it.
That being said, once you get close to the cap again, you could create an alt guild. Easily done, easily executed.
And for all this "discrimination" talk, you don't think splitting the guild by class is discrimination? To be honest, that is how I felt when you announced it so abruptly. Most people are playing Jedi, and most people don't want to have a public channel rattling on on their screen.
All in all, I truly enjoyed the guild even though there were never "officers" on to conduct needed help 75% of the time I was on. And I work from home, so I am on a lot! I also was GL, RL, and Officer in multiple guilds on WoW from Vanilla to just this past July, I know how hard it is to regulate a game. But at the same time, I never did anything without asking my members what they thought (which you did not do at all in this matter, and when we gave you suggestions, you reacted defensively and accosted us with senseless reiterations of what you were going to do no matter how we felt or what we said).
But let me stress this one last point, I still hope to be friends with members of your guild and want no ill-will between us.

I'm sorry you feel that way, Experian. I only speak for myself when I say this, and only speak as just a member. But I was a part of the guild for Star Trek Online, and having some previous experience with how things were run there, I completely understand how and why the leadership is doing what they are. The game hasn't even been released for a month, so it's still too early to see who is actually playing right now. Not everyone has the luxury of working from home and being on all day every day. They are wanting to be as inclusive as possible and do what is best for all of the membership. In STO, people loved helping new people level their characters and helping out the lower ranks, so I can see why they wouldn't want a level cap. I know they helped me a lot, and I gave back as I could. A lot of other guilds seem to require time commitments and regular appearances, but from what I have seen in my limited MMO experience, this isn't your normal guild. It tries to cater to the casual player as well as the hardcore. It's about what the guild can do for you, not just what you can do for your guild.

I'm sure the leadership has considered the options carefully and that it wasn't an easy decision. But to me, dividing into multiple guilds in the game doesn't affect me much. Maybe I'm missing something, but there's nothing that prevents me from grouping with members from the other guilds for the same things that would have occurred if we were still in the same guild. I also don't see the difference in speaking in the Stonewall channel as opposed to your Guild channel -- you just set your chat to that instead. Maybe I have more faith in people not griefing or hijacking, but if it does happen, there are game moderators that can handle that.

So to me, the leadership here hasn't been lazy at all -- they've been working hard to provide the best product for EVERYONE, not just the most hardcore gamers like yourself. Frankly, I appreciate that especially since I don't have the most predictable schedule to play. And it seems to me that they have come up with what appears to be a good product -- something that can accommodate more people for a more robust SWTOR experience with seemingly only cosmetic changes to guild chatting.

Quote by QiqJoe

So to me, the leadership here hasn't been lazy at all -- they've been working hard to provide the best product for EVERYONE, not just the most hardcore gamers like yourself. Frankly, I appreciate that especially since I don't have the most predictable schedule to play. And it seems to me that they have come up with what appears to be a good product -- something that can accommodate more people for a more robust SWTOR experience with seemingly only cosmetic changes to guild chatting.

I don't think it was laziness as well but the result of a culmination of events. The Holiday season, the stepping down by some officers and the time to recruit new ones didn't leave much time for the Guild Leadership to take everyone's opinion on the issue. (since this is a guild that is open to everyone and we are all free to discuss it -- hopefully)

I also think that the Guild Leadership probably wasn't expecting such a negative reaction from some members, since some have come from other MMOs where they have gotten used to a certain way of doing things.

I can only speak for myself, I don't really have a problem with the solution presented by the Guild Leadership, it's definitely not the best solution but not the worst either, and every time I read a new post by an officer I get more confused with the way it's being explained.
My confusion lies with how the Guild Leadership sees Knights of Stonewall has their Flagship Guild, but on the other hand you can't really call it a Flagship, since the guild really isn't being inclusive of all members, specially those that don't want (or interested) to play a Force user class might end up feeling "penalized" for not belonging to KoS. (sorry I know it's confusing and it's hard for me to explain since English is not my lingua franca)

TL;DR KoS shouldn't be called a Flagship Guild nor should be used as a vehicle of cohesion because it's not, it will be a Guild just for Force users, while non force users will be with SoS.
True cohesion comes from the name Stonewall and not from a prefix or suffix which seems to be where the confusion might be coming from.

Now I still vote for the BH/IA guild to be called Master of Stonewall :P