Opinion of TOR

I know there are at least a few Stonewaller still on the fence as to if, and when, they will pick up SW:TOR. I figured the opinions of their fellow Stonewallers might help them make a more informed decision.

Besides, I thought it would be an excuse to bloviate about the good, the bad, and the ugly. :-)

The Best:

The biggest for me is that the traditional urge of "grinding" missions or mobs to get one more level seems to be completely absent (at least for me and my husband). Like BioWare's other games, the story keeps us engaged and interested and wanting to play to find out the next plot point(s). The actual level progression feels like it is a secondary matter only dealt with between mission arcs.

This to me is BioWare's greatest achievement with TOR and is really one of the few stand out features compared to other MMOs. That said, it's a very important one. We arrived on the second planet (deemed for levels 16-20) as level 18, and left to prepare for the next planet (levels 20-25) as level 25 never feeling like we should stop what we were doing to move onto "level appropriate" content.

The fact that the game is fully voiced, allows you to make decisions about how you respond, and includes a "social" system whereby these conversations can be participated in by the entire group (well, all except for the class-specific conversations, but those are at least observable).

Except for the conversations that happen within an instanced zone, you don't even need to be in the same area when the conversation is initiated. You have the option to join the conversation as a holo-call, where you (and your companion if you have one) will appear in the conversation as a hologram.

You've got so many skills at your disposal within the first 15 levels of the game that you *almost* dread gaining another new ability. We've found ourselves picking and choosing what we want to add or level up based on how we play (e.g. I skipped a "clear debuff" skill for now to focus on healing and damage letting my companion handle this portion, and MikeyNY skipped the Shadow's Stealth based abilities in order to focus on the tanking abilities).

Other Pros:

+The ability to craft while you adventure is great thinking. When you have enough crew, the ability to craft, and gather, while still adventuring with a companion is brilliant.

+Companions: Every class gets access to 5 companions that fill specific roles: Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, Healer, Melee Tank, Ranged Tank. This allows you to build your character and play exactly how you want, and have your primary 'weakness' filled by your companion if you don't have a group. Want to be a Healer, bring along a DPS. Prefer ranged DPS? Bring along your melee tank to keep the enemies away from you.

+Story Variety: Every class has a unique story arc. They range from the straight-forward and predictable (Inquisitor); to one with a bit of a twist that you see coming (Trooper); to one that, JUST as you get into what feels like a normal "get quest, complete quest, return to quest giver" routine, it is turned completely on it's ear (Bounty Hunter), to one that is all about nuance and intrigue (Agent). The Inquisitor was my introduction to TOR and left me disappointed because it was so predictable. Probably the worst... introduction... ever. I am really engaged in the Trooper storyline, can't wait to get my Agent going, and was truly, and pleasantly, surprised with the Bounty Hunter.

The Worst:

There are a few 'features' unique to the MMO genre that rear it's ugly head in this game for what appears to be no other reason than just because other MMOs do it.

Arguably the most annoying are the Boss fights for the Bonus missions. Unlike nearly every other spawn/mob/glowie, these bosses are on a ridiculously (and needlessly) long respawn timer. One ninja attack from a griefer and you'll find yourself waiting upwards of 10-15 minutes to finally get in a kill. I don't see any reason to have the ridiculously long spawn timer. I'm really hoping they deal with this soon.

The other 2 major annoyances go hand in hand: Why, in a universe where jumping across the galaxy only takes seconds, and holo-comms allow you participate in conversations when you are across the planet, or across the galaxy, do you have to keep running back and forth from mission areas to mission hubs to advance quests?! In some cases the missions grow organically, letting you to continue to move forward without backtracking. But more often than not, when you've killed your Xth Enemy, why can't you report your accomplishment with a simple holo-call. No, you've got to run your little backside all the way back to turn in the quest.

The fact that they already use the Mail system for NPCs to communicate with (and reward) you based on your actions means that there was enough forethought into using this system to delivery quest rewards, but not enough to think that this could be used for a good 75% or more of the quests.

And if every one of the class masters finds a way to requisition you an entire STARSHIP, why can't they be bothered to issue you a LAND VEHICLE. The amount of running back and forth during the first 25 levels is absolutely absurd. The fact that you are doing it on foot makes absolutely no sense for any other reason than the old MMO "you need to earn your mount" trope. Even orphan Skywalker had himself a land speeder.

Other Cons:

-After having been spoiled by Cryptic's character generators (CoX, CO, STO) TORs character creator feels like a major step backwards. It's beefier than WoWs, but not by too much. That said, I've been able to generate a few hotties for my characters, so I'm not completely turned off by it.

-Naming: Again having been spoiled by the robust character naming systems in CoX, CO, and STO, I was absolutely flabbergasted when I was unable to name my character Dakon Kor. TOR does not allow spaces in the character name. This is a real disappointment for me as I take great care in my character names and appearances. To make up for this, they allow you to generate a "Legacy" name when you hit a certain point in one of your character's development. In essence you have to earn your last name.

Would Han Solo, or Luke Skywalker or Leia Organa or Obi-Wan Kenobi be nearly as memorable if we saw them in the first two movies as "Han" only for him to earn the Legacy name of "Solo" for his actions on Endor?! Even more frustrating is that once you choose a Legacy name, it applies to ALL character on the server. So my Republic hero may earn the Starshield name for his Legacy, but my Imperial Agent, if he is to have any name, will have to bear the same.

If any of you have played Everquest, you will probably remember you got to earn your "surname" at level 15. If you played Ultima Online prior to that, then you have an idea what a jolt this can be. Having the freedom to craft a proper name, only to be forced into a strict naming convention and "earning" a surname. It feels like such an archaic system.


The Ugly:

-Character customization: Dressing and gearing up is right out of the WoW/EQ model. I can't tell you how annoying it is to be running around as an Elite member of the Republic Military wearing white and blue boots, green and black greaves, a Jedi Knight's robe, and white and red gloves. I look more like I walked out of a picked-over Goodwill rather than a member of the most decorated squad in the Republic. I have been so spoiled by Cryptic's games in my ability to truly customize the look of my character, that this is a major personal annoyance.

Sony did a brilliant job of marrying the item/gear collection of WoW/EQ with the character customization of modern Cryptic games in DCUO. Each piece of gear you earn unlocks an art asset and gives you the freedom to display that, or any other asset you've unlocked and color it as you see fit, so that you can create a look for your character and maintain it (or evolve it as you get matching pieces). You maintain the stats of the piece of gear you are wearing, even if the art asset is something you unlocked earlier.

So that's a brief run down of both the best and worst points, in my opinion, of the game.

Overall the strength of BioWare's story telling overshadows all of the other problems of the game. Probably specifically because the positive aspects of the game are so good, do the drawbacks annoy me so much. If BioWare had taken some of the modern MMO conventions into account (specifically regarding character customization, and the lack of speedy ground transport for more than half of the game), TOR would be an absolute slam-dunk. Instead I'm left saying, "It's good... but..."

I completely agree with everything he just said.

Yikes. The videos I have seen so far make the ground combat look fairly enticing... but I saw a space battle video, and I was turned right off.

Guess I'm spoiled by STO space battles. Also... the lack of uniform customization is a major reason why I'm not that interested in this game. Sounds silly, but customization is huge.

Still not sold on the game. Really looking for more opinions though.

Hmm... as far as customization goes I think I disagree to some extent. First off WoW did finally break down and allow for extensive customization in the last update (4.3). And for SWTOR you do have a lot of choice with what you wear since most of the gear you get is upgradable. I think my beef is that it can take a long time to get all the items you want.

Though I do see that at high level the BEST gear is not customizable / upgradable, but they do appear to match for the most part.

As for space combat, it's a mini-game and that's it. Once you understand that it is actually a lot of fun. I do it everyday and every time it is an adrenaline filled thrill ride.

I agree with Dakon, especially regarding how the plot draws you in! In WoW, once a quest went green, I trashed it. Only yellow and above for me. In SWTOR, not only have I kept all my green quests, I've even had GRAY ones, as in ones that give no xp (well, 5 points, but that's pretty much 0 relative to the several thousands for level matching quests) simply to progress the plot.

In my 20s, I found myself on Taris, a frontier world dealing with a growing population of seemingly mindless, infectious creatures known as rakghouls. I soon got to the point where I was ready for the next planet, level-wise, but there were still so many quests available. I decided to spend the day and do them all and was rewarded with what felt like a self-contained space-zombie RPG game, albeit one where I had the option to enlist the aid of friends when desired. This was just ONE planet out of 17 total (14 per side). I was really excited to see where the story took me next, and so far I haven't been disappointed.

The next world, Nar Shadaa, has been completely different, yet equally enthralling. Instead of a wild, swampy frontier, it's like a planet-sized casino rife with gangsters and slumlords. Once again it almost felt like I was playing a new, self-contained game, but this time championing the downtrodden, shutting down drug dens and cage fights, all while uncovering sinister Imperial intrigue. There has been just so much content!

I've come to actually care for not only my character (full voice content goes a long way), but also his companions, and even recurring characters helping you along the way. For instance, there's this Republic agent who has been helping my trooper out. Though there's no official same sex content in the game yet (coming eventually according to the developers), there are a few moments with a flirtatious feel. Even without that, my trooper and the agent have gotten each other out of some tough spots and the banter reflects that. In WoW, I never gave a hoot about the quest givers. Here I find myself actually looking forward to bumping into them again in the future (their locations aren't always static). In my opinion, Bioware has combined the best elements of traditional MMOs and Single Player RPGs. I highly recommend it!

Thanks guys. This is really great info!

Quote by Aldente

I would keep my eye out for a reasonable solution to the "picked-over thrift store" attire issue in the relatively near future. I'm not sure if it will be more along the lines of an appearance tab or a system of dyes or something else entirely, but I have faith that we'll be in a happier fashion state before I get my 8th toon to 50. :-)

Oh I hope so. This is great news!

Now if they will only lower the vehicle barrier, and lower the Bonus Boss respawn timers, that will deal with my biggest fixable complaints of the game.

Great Review! Thanks for sharing.

I have to say that, compared to the "rough around the edges" launches of WoW and STO, SW:TOR launched as a rather solid piece of software with minimal bugs.

BioWare will always have A TON of feedback to go off of towards the future development of the game. I agree that we should have speeders accessible for the ground as long as we're given an entire starship. I personally don't see that oddball arc staying that way permanently.

While some would call me a fanboi (and I really don't care xD ), This game has blown away all of my expectations.

It is so refreshing to play a new game that is so well developed at its release date.

MTFBWY!
Steve

Note: The only other MMO I've played is STO, so everything I view is in its light. I'm also a huge fan of Trek as compared to Wars.

Overall review: HIGHLY RECOMMEND

Pros:
1.) Feels like one of those second-person pick-your-path novels, "You're standing at the entrance to the Haunted House. You hear a shriek emanating from the upstairs window. If you want to go upstairs, go to chapter 20. If you want to go to the tool shed and pick up a shovel to defend yourself, go to chapter 44." Yes, those novels were kind of cheesy, but I enjoyed them nonetheless. But to see it in a video game as the incarnation and visual representation of all these novels complete with voice acting and movie-type animation and thought to cinematography, it's frickin' bad-ass.
2.) Graphics are beautiful! I liked STO, but this blows it out of the water.
3.) It keeps true to the spirit of the Star Wars movies. Has similar type high moral and snarky characters that seem somewhat true to life, and it focuses on the characters. Despite liking the Trek universe overall better, Wars just has a cool factor Trek doesn't. It's more personal and a bit gritty. Trek seems to place more emphasis on "look at this really cool gadget that we totally made up within the realm of physics." Wars is all "hey, this is science FICTION so we do what we want; plus we're just conveying a story anyway so focus on the peeps, not the tech." You get involved with your character. You get involved with other characters and their stories. I will say that I have trouble making decisions sometimes, especially when the Light/Dark points come into play but you have this what-seems-like-a-real-person standing in front you. Do I do what's best/worst for them personally or hold true to my ideals?
4. Very few bugs. I've encountered a couple of minor, and I do mean minor ones. Nothing has prevented me from completing a mission or caused my character to die. The worst one I saw was when I tried to kill a squadron of people, they just wouldn't die. BUT, they kept regenerating in the middle of it so they'd also lose their target, i.e. me. So I got away scott-free (I'm not sure who Scott is, and how he gets away with it so much, but I'm glad he shared his luck with me this time.) This also was not in a major mission area. I was just gathering some stuff for my Archaeology crew skill/crafting. Again, very minor.
5. Very mature product. I was shocked by how robust the game is. STO was released, and by the time you changed ships for the first time and got your first promotion, you got in a rhythm and knew what to expect from then-on. This keeps you off-balance and changes intent, combat styles, etc. You can't beat all the bosses or enemies the same way.

Cons:
1. My biggest complaint is the server-based game architecture. STO did not have this, and YOU CANNOT SWITCH SERVERS. This is what hit me personally, so it likely won't be a big deal for most. But I have a Level 30 character on a different server that I had no idea when I signed up for that server that I couldn't migrate it. STO spoiled me here.
2. They could still optimize some of the respawn points and Medical Droids. Again, not a big deal and doesn't happen all that often. But a few times I've just thought "man, I've got to run all the way back there and all the way through those regenerated enemies again. Dang. And I've got to run to the Droid and heal first through all these other bad dudes. Aw." Doesn't happen much, and you shouldn't always be given a free pass back to where you were, but a couple of times have seemed more excessive than usual.

Squishy:
1.) Space missions. I personally find this a pro, but others might think this is a con. I like the fact that most of your missions are ground based. The ground missions are varied enough so you don't get bored with them easily. STO, yes, you need the space combat to feel varied for the most part. But when you do go into space, I like the fact that it's a completely different interface and feel. STO is a similar interface. Select your target, use the same buttons for similar type AOE, damage, buff, debuff, etc. Space combat in SWTOR is more like an arcade game -- on of those car/motorcycle racing games with a little bit of Mario Kart thrown in. Your ship is moving regardless of what you do. So you've got to steer it away from obstacles as well as hit some targets while you're doing this before they all hit you.

Overall, reiteration: FANTASTIC game, very mature, keeps my interest, more like reading a book than playing a game. I called my former college roommate (HUGE Star Wars geek who has read all the books, etc) and specifically recommended that he NOT get this game if he doesn't want to flunk out of getting his doctorate right now. It is highly addicting and really like immersing yourself in a different universe.

I TOTALLY agree with DakonKor's description of "how things are" in game. I particularly like how he describes the pure idiocy of the running back and forth to turn most missions in. I think SWTOR devs probably kept this in for a majority of quests because it's simply a way to "extend" content. If they allowed you to "holocall" all your quests in, just about everyone would have completed all the game content within 1-3 days of the game release. I think my particular complaint has to do with the cost of EVERYTHING! From increasing your inventory size by ONLY 10 spaces for 5000 credits (what's a credit anyway?)the first time, then it costs 20,000 credits for another 10 spaces. (I don't want to think what exponential increase will be used for more than that :angry: )to the cost for just "learning" the ability to ride a speeder much less the cost for an actual speeder. GEESH! I have most of my toons to level 20 and lose almost half of what I managed to earn through missions just training a couple of new abilities each level. I fully expect to not be able to get a speeder because of the cost for everything else. Hopefully, I will be totally surprised when the time comes and find out it is all doable. Not looking good at this point though. :(

Quote by ltervlet

I TOTALLY agree with DakonKor's description of "how things are" in game. I particularly like how he describes the pure idiocy of the running back and forth to turn most missions in. I think SWTOR devs probably kept this in for a majority of quests because it's simply a way to "extend" content. If they allowed you to "holocall" all your quests in, just about everyone would have completed all the game content within 1-3 days of the game release. I think my particular complaint has to do with the cost of EVERYTHING! From increasing your inventory size by ONLY 10 spaces for 5000 credits (what's a credit anyway?)the first time, then it costs 20,000 credits for another 10 spaces. (I don't want to think what exponential increase will be used for more than that :angry: )to the cost for just "learning" the ability to ride a speeder much less the cost for an actual speeder. GEESH! I have most of my toons to level 20 and lose almost half of what I managed to earn through missions just training a couple of new abilities each level. I fully expect to not be able to get a speeder because of the cost for everything else. Hopefully, I will be totally surprised when the time comes and find out it is all doable. Not looking good at this point though. :(

I wouldn't get so worked up about the cost of inventory slots and mount training. The entire point of these is to create "money sinks" so that you have something to spend your credits on. In STO, I have MILLIONS of energy credits and nothing to buy. I'd much rather be living "paycheck to paycheck" in TOR so when I can afford something it has more value since I had to work for it.

If you really need some more credits, my C2N2 has been busy running crew missions for me so the ship is getting a bit dirty; how about putting on a maid outfit and... :P

Quote by ltervlet

Hopefully, I will be totally surprised when the time comes and find out it is all doable. Not looking good at this point though. :(

One of my annoyances about the speeder training cost is that where BioWare seemed to work very hard to minimize the 'grindy' nature of MMOs with the story and even with crafting. I found myself grinding the same space missions over and over to earn the credits needed for training and the Speeder.

I still say that if the Council or Republic Army, or Bounty Hunter Sponsor (not sure if this is how the BH gets a ship, but its where my brain took it logically) can afford to requisition you a ship around level 15, they should be able to throw a speeder in the cargo hold. Hell... I'd be happy if they'd issue you uniform of some kind so you at least look the part!

I wonder if my first companion is still wearing the ridiculous get-up I wound up wearing for over 10 levels until the mid-to-late 20s. I need to get a screenshot to show everyone.

Quote by DakonKor

I still say that if the Council or Republic Army, or Bounty Hunter Sponsor (not sure if this is how the BH gets a ship, but its where my brain took it logically) can afford to requisition you a ship around level 15, they should be able to throw a speeder in the cargo hold. Hell... I'd be happy if they'd issue you uniform of some kind so you at least look the part!

Not to give anything away, but bounty hunters aren't actually sponsored for anything. :pinch:

Quote by ltervlet

I still say that if the Council or Republic Army, or Bounty Hunter Sponsor (not sure if this is how the BH gets a ship, but its where my brain took it logically) can afford to requisition you a ship around level 15, they should be able to throw a speeder in the cargo hold.

I couldn't agree with you more DakonKor, well said! I'll try to remember to let you know how the BH "acquires" their ship as my BH is at level 13 and should be close to getting one going by when all my other toons have been given theirs.

Quote by ltervlet

I couldn't agree with you more DakonKor, well said! I'll try to remember to let you know how the BH "acquires" their ship as my BH is at level 13 and should be close to getting one going by when all my other toons have been given theirs.

I thank you for the offer but beg you no spoilers. My husband and I have an Agent/Bounty Hunter duo we'll be levelling up as we either finish up the Republic story, or need a break.