Quote by NicholasJohn16

Science is a philosophy which is predicated on a number of assumptions, that the Universe exists, that we can trust our perceptions, that the Universe follows certain Natural Laws. Those assumptions must be true for Science to be applicable. Too often, people try to apply science were it is not appropriate.

I respectfully disagree. Science is not a philosophy, it is a process, a means of learning about the universe. It is not a set of beliefs, it is a system of guessing, and then checking to see if your guess was right. Science is not on par with any belief system, because it is based not on adherence to any particular idea or set of ideas, but on skepticism of everything, including (especially) the science that has come before. The argument that a scientist believes in science in the same way a theist believes in a deity is misleading. However people may develop faith in science as their experience shows them that it is a useful system for getting closer to the truth. ("Faith" in this case is just a poor choice of words on my part. They actually develop confidence in science.)

You bring up some interesting thoughts, especially about science's assumptions. I would not say the existence of the universe is an assumption. (If it doesn't exist, none of this really matters, and we can all go back to playing STO, or rather thinking that we're playing STO.) Descartes started with cogito ergo sum, and we haven't looked back since then. (I'm exaggerating; some still challenge the Descartes' assumptions. But if you define existence as a quality which the universe possesses, you can skip this part and move on to the juicier stuff.)

That we can trust our perceptions and that there are natural laws are not assumptions. They have been tested through repeatable experimentation. Even if we can't say for sure that your experience of the color blue is the same as my experience of the color blue, we each recognize blue when we see it. And even my dog has a working knowledge of projectile motion, based on the repeatability of how a ball moves when thrown. We model the ball's path using a mathematical model (our old friend F=ma again) of gravity (and to a lesser extent aerodynamics, and other effects). We can do this (and my dog can do this) because every single time we have ever thrown a ball, it has come back to earth, following a more or less parabolic path (depending on wind).

I am curious where you think science is not appropriate. If it makes you feel better, there is some truth to the saying "science can't prove a negative." http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/%22You_Can%27t_Prove_a_Negative%22 Largely because proving something could never happen would, if you think about it, literally take forever.

There are some interesting theories that everything we experience as real is a construct, a hologram, a representation of the universe that bears little resemblance to reality (whatever that means). Our perceptions are a product of how our brains evolved in this universe. At the atomic and subatomic level, matter is mostly empty space. Yet we experience a table as a solid object. Does that make our experience of the table any less true? I don't think so. It just means we're somewhat trapped in our own limited consciousness, and our own limited brains. But we can still learn how things work within our own limited perceptions of the universe.

It's kind of like when you start playing a new computer game. You explore. Try things out. Test to see how high you can jump, how fast you can run, what this button does, how to avoid ending the game too soon. You can learn a lot without ever looking at the source code of the program, never mind the machine code. So whether our "real life" perceptions are "true" or not, we can still learn a lot, even though we're trapped in our puny human brains.

Of course, all of this is just my take on things. Obviously I love discussing this stuff. Apologies if anyone has been offended, or if I have come across as anything but a geek full of wonder.

Whew!

TL;DR - Science rocks! :)

Quote by Propecius

Quote by NicholasJohn16

While I agree with his definition of "open mindedness," I think some of his logic is flawed. Lots of people try to use the scientific method to quantify and qualify everything they see or experience and they try to say that because it hasn't yet been explained by science, doesn't mean it can't or won't be in the future, there for its not supernatural, its just currently unexplained. This precludes the possibility that something truely is supernatural, ie unexplainable by the natural laws that we use in science to define the natural world around us. People push for science to explain *everything,* but even science has its limitations.

But surely the scientific method should be able to be used to prove that something is beyond the realm of (our current understanding of) science. Simply declaring something is supernatural or beyond the laws of nature does not make it so. Such a hypothesis needs to be tested.

I suspect the narrator would say that there is nothing supernatural. Anything that appears supernatural now is either hokum, or as yet unexplained.

There are laws in our universe. Things that we have been able to model to some degree of accuracy, in certain frames of reference. Facts that hold true time and time again. F = ma is always true (in a Newtonian frame of reference, at least). If F were to ever not equal ma, then scientists take another stab at it, and expand their model to include the new facts. (And in fact this happened with General Relativity.)

So the word "supernatural" becomes kind of an oxymoron. Nothing can exist that doesn't exist. There is nothing in our universe except what is in our universe. Sure, some things remain unexplained, but that doesn't make them supernatural. I guess we could think of the supernatural (the unexplained) as science's To Do list.

Yes, I agree that he'd probably say there is no such thing as 'supernatural' and that would be very closed minded of him. To a point, you are correct, but you also reassert my point. The scientific method is based on our measurable perceptions of the universe, but there are things that could/do exist outside of that universe; for example what existed before 'The Big Bang' (or whichever universe creation theory your subscribe to) or after the point of death. It would be impossible to take measurements or collect reliable data from before the Universe existed. As of yet, I've never heard of anyone returning from the great beyond with reliable data. This does not mean that either don't exist, only that their existence falls outside the realm of science.

Science is a philosophy which is predicated on a number of assumptions, that the Universe exists, that we can trust our perceptions, that the Universe follows certain Natural Laws. Those assumptions must be true for Science to be applicable. Too often, people try to apply science were it is not appropriate.

Quote by NicholasJohn16

While I agree with his definition of "open mindedness," I think some of his logic is flawed. Lots of people try to use the scientific method to quantify and qualify everything they see or experience and they try to say that because it hasn't yet been explained by science, doesn't mean it can't or won't be in the future, there for its not supernatural, its just currently unexplained. This precludes the possibility that something truely is supernatural, ie unexplainable by the natural laws that we use in science to define the natural world around us. People push for science to explain *everything,* but even science has its limitations.

But surely the scientific method should be able to be used to prove that something is beyond the realm of (our current understanding of) science. Simply declaring something is supernatural or beyond the laws of nature does not make it so. Such a hypothesis needs to be tested.

I suspect the narrator would say that there is nothing supernatural. Anything that appears supernatural now is either hokum, or as yet unexplained.

There are laws in our universe. Things that we have been able to model to some degree of accuracy, in certain frames of reference. Facts that hold true time and time again. F = ma is always true (in a Newtonian frame of reference, at least). If F were to ever not equal ma, then scientists take another stab at it, and expand their model to include the new facts. (And in fact this happened with General Relativity.)

So the word "supernatural" becomes kind of an oxymoron. Nothing can exist that doesn't exist. There is nothing in our universe except what is in our universe. Sure, some things remain unexplained, but that doesn't make them supernatural. I guess we could think of the supernatural (the unexplained) as science's To Do list.

While I agree with his definition of "open mindedness," I think some of his logic is flawed. Lots of people try to use the scientific method to quantify and qualify everything they see or experience and they try to say that because it hasn't yet been explained by science, doesn't mean it can't or won't be in the future, there for its not supernatural, its just currently unexplained. This precludes the possibility that something truely is supernatural, ie unexplainable by the natural laws that we use in science to define the natural world around us. People push for science to explain *everything,* but even science has its limitations.

o.o I hope that made sense.

Quote by kiddkasper

And my question is, where did "non-scientific phenomena" come from? since it wasn't in the film.

Was just going for the gist of what was said in the video to make a play on words.

And my question is, where did "non-scientific phenomena" come from? since it wasn't in the film.

He did however state that it's important to have evidence for non-scientific concepts.

Quote by chemkarate

"non-scientific phenomena" is a contradiction. All phenomena that actually occur can be observed and tested, and therefore are scientific.

^^^ This. ^^^

(Gives chemkarate a big cyberhug)

Quote by Angelsilhouette

So how does the game play? Are the controls dumbed down for console users like CO? Is it really a MMO? I've heard some people say it's more like a regular multiplayer and not a massively multiplayer; smaller world/pop. I read many bad things about customisation for both powers and costumes, something about only being able to pick two colours or something. True or myth?

There have been some grumblings that character creation is very limited and combat is a lot of button-mashing (for consoles) and mouse-clicking (for PC's). For a casual gamer like me, I like it for what it is - you log on, do a couple of missions and log off. Granted, there will be a point where you will have to group up to defeat some of the bosses waiting for you at the last adventure of the story arc, but I don't think that's going to be a problem currently. The real test will be a month or so from now to see how many players will stick with it.

I think in time DCU will be a great game. For now, it's a good one.

PS - as for LGBT "Leagues" (their term for player-created supergroups as in City of Heroes), a few were in the process of forming but I haven't seen them in-game yet. A forum post said that LGBT teams from other players were setting up on the US Server "Virtue & Vice" (PvE) but again I haven't seen them.

Anyway, any PC player on the US PvE servers "New Frontier" and "Virtue & Vice" can give me a shout if you want to get together for some missions. These are my alts so far:

Monsieur Tarot - Sorcery/Staff/Flight - Mentor: Wonder Woman

Virgo/The Virgoan - Nature/Hand Blast/Super Speed - Mentor: Superman
(On New Frontier it's Virgo, on Virtue & Vice it's The Virgoan)

Major Victory - Gadgets/Bow/Acrobatics - Mentor: Batman

"non-scientific phenomena" is a contradiction. All phenomena that actually occur can be observed and tested, and therefore are scientific.

Perhaps he needs to be more open-minded about supernatural or non-scientific phenomena. :P

I found this to be a profoundly simple explanation of something I hadn't put much thought into before.



(Or maybe it's just more believable because of the narrator's accent.)

I have cleared all my appointments in other sectors for this stardate, set forth but command. My vessels are at your disposal sirs.

Malikius out.

I would like to put in my request for either escort or science station. Need to know what my requirements for this posting and equipment does my ship need or personnel to be trained up in sir(s)?

Hope that this is the proper channel for this request. If not please let me know where I need to post this communique.

Episode 154 - The Next Generation - "Shades of Gray" - 07/17/1989



Parts 2-5:

Found from the above link in the related videos section

Riker is poisoned by an alien plant and, as he lies comatose, he relives various memories of his life serving the Enterprise.

Enjoy!

I meant that the hull is saucer-shaped, so that it's just bigger than the streamlined one of, say, D, and with that size indicating that there's a lot more that can go on in the "business" part of the ship. I did give the saucer more "action" too, though, by giving it its own nacelle. I mean, saucer separation is all about saving civilians, so why not get them the heck out of there?! And how would that nacelle work without a warp core? I theorise they've invented a "warp battery" that can store energy in the saucer upon separation.

*****

The text of my pic says:

VISION STATEMENT:
I intend to recreate the Enterprise by depicting bulk, speed, and technological advancement through a unique synthesis of design elements already established in Star Trek canon.

DESIGN INNOVATIONS:
*Compact design implies size and heft
*Use of triple nacelles, established in canon, implies speed and manoeuvrability
*Sleek, tapered, flat-bottomed saucer, reminiscent of Voyager, also implies speed
*Larger hull indicates greater technological capacity
*Hull contains large fore weapons port
*Saucer has its own nacelle
*Upon separation, each of the two components should appear complete unto itself. [This is something that bugs the time out of me about D, and my earlier sketches, which hewed closer to D, ended up having a hull that looked like a decapitated duck upon separation.]

NOTES
*Shades of grey represent relative distance; ship is to be a solid pale grey, though connectors between saucer and hull are black.
*Aft saucer panels are wedge-shaped.

*****

It really is a shame that so much detail got lost, not just the text, but each of those views of the ships has windows, you just can't tell with this resolution.

I think the lesson for me is that I should have collaborated with someone who had better design experience and software, and split any potential winnings. But, like, I spent 8 hours straight drawing this (and two designs I rejected, including the decapitated duck), I was caught in the spirit of a very long moment. :-)

Edited Scott Bacula's birth year. Thanks to Qiqjoe.

link away! i know im not winning either. was still hella fun to design though. and i get what you're saying. more activity in the saucer section, like the D compared to the E? i couldnt read the rationale so im guessing:P good luck to us both!

just hope marty doesnt stick an ewok head on it!

Dare I post the link to my design? I know it's not going to win, but still... I wrote up a rationale for the design, but the print is awfully small. And yes, until someone can show me how to draw shapes in GIMP, I'm stuck using Paint for everything. This design did take several hours to create in Paint, and I'm proud of it. The whole idea of the saucer-shaped hull is to give the idea that there is a lot more going on in it, I don't know if I'm phrasing that well but it's late, and I think it looks more complete upon separation.

http://www.startrekonline.com/enterprise/gallery?filter=search&keyword=Whittier%20Strong

What do you mean by standard starfleet uniform? Is that our normal game uniform or our fleet uniform? Appropriate rank for our job in the roleplay? What rank would security personnel have?

So how does the game play? Are the controls dumbed down for console users like CO? Is it really a MMO? I've heard some people say it's more like a regular multiplayer and not a massively multiplayer; smaller world/pop. I read many bad things about customisation for both powers and costumes, something about only being able to pick two colours or something. True or myth?