Since those who aren't happy with it aren't being forced to move and those who were willing to assist have moved making room for more Knight/Consulars everyone should be happy.

Quote by NicholasJohn16

The switch won't be forced or required. We'll simply be asking those willing to switch their non-force characters over to Soldiers of Stonewall.

So does that mean I finally have reason to start picking out a cadence? If so I am pumped lol.

Quote by Justjon

So would that be representing the community you stated before? We can't be a community and always just think of ourselves. If everyone in Stonewall during the riot had only thought of themselves they wouldn't have been a unit and it wouldn't be a part of history.

Alright, so let's see everyone else make that sacrifice first before asking others and have the newcomers run the Knights of Stonewall where every officer leaves the guild to open up space. I'm sure the newcomers will run the guild just as good as anyone else.

Then I will follow you to the gates of Hades if you can pull this off and set an example.

Quote by cruist22

Common sense also told me when I joined the Knights of Stonewall, "the Flagship guild and a trademark", I wouldn't be forced to leave the guild to open up space for a newcomer.

So would that be representing the community you stated before? We can't be a community and always just think of ourselves. If everyone in Stonewall during the riot had only thought of themselves they wouldn't have been a unit and it wouldn't be a part of history.

Quote by Taher

First this is a business weather you get paid or not. The officer and guild leaders put time into it, they don't get paid for either. They pretty much pay for a game they probably do not get to enjoy as much as the rest of us because of all the complains they are getting.

I think you are seriously confused as to what consists of a business and what makes a community. None of the guild officers are being forced to "serve" anyone here but they are volunteering their time. Volunteering for a community (which is how it's defined all over this very website), is based on personal choice and it may not be used to rub it on a member's face as a leverage. Again, thanks god none of the officers here are as inconsiderate as that, the way you want them to act. It seems you don't truly know the meaning of our guild's name and what it's based on.

Quote by Taher

Common sense should have told you that a sub guild was going to happen there. I could not have told you how they were going to do it. It did not take much to figure out it was going to happen with 450+ members in one guild when the limit is 500.

Common sense also told me when I joined the Knights of Stonewall, "the Flagship guild and a trademark", I wouldn't be forced to leave the guild to open up space for a newcomer.

Episode 494 - Voyager - "Death Wish" - 02/19/1996

http://www.allstepisodes.com/megvid.php?n=4218

The crew encounter a member of the Q Continuum seeking to end his immortal life.

Enjoy!

Posted from my Android.

Times/Days: Friday: 7pm-11pm GMT, Saturday on and off all day GMT

Faction: Mainly Empire right now.

First this is a business weather you get paid or not. The officer and guild leaders put time into it, they don't get paid for either. They pretty much pay for a game they probably do not get to enjoy as much as the rest of us because of all the complains they are getting.

Common sense should have told you that a sub guild was going to happen there. I could not have told you how they were going to do it. It did not take much to figure out it was going to happen with 450+ members in one guild when the limit is 500.

Quote by cruist22

Quote by Taher

I do not understand the problem with just the officer having discussed this issue. If this was a place of business the employees would not be able to talk to the owner or bosses about what or how something is going to happen, it just happens. No discussion or talking to the employees, sometimes they might give a heads up, not always.

Sure, as long as I'm getting paid I wouldn't mind any change at all and then jump on to the next corporation as soon as they pay me 50 cents more along with my customer portfolio. But this is not a corporation or a fascist Middle East dictatorship. It's a community for liberal minded people standing up against oppression. "Stonewall" anyone? I am glad that the guild leadership doesn't share your views on this matter and as far as I know they are working hard to come up with a better solution.

Quote by Taher

It is usually this is going to happen. If you are paying attention you know what is going to happen before it does happen.

So you knew about all of this before? Man wish we all had your insight. :)

I think his point more was the fact that when they had to make a quick decision a large majority jumped on them. This will have to happen from time to time. No decision is every going to make everyone happy. All the leadership can do is hope you trust in them enough and know that they have everyone's best intention in mind.

Quote by Taher

I do not understand the problem with just the officer having discussed this issue. If this was a place of business the employees would not be able to talk to the owner or bosses about what or how something is going to happen, it just happens. No discussion or talking to the employees, sometimes they might give a heads up, not always.

Sure, as long as I'm getting paid I wouldn't mind any change at all and then jump on to the next corporation as soon as they pay me 50 cents more along with my customer portfolio. But this is not a corporation or a fascist Middle East dictatorship. It's a community for liberal minded people standing up against oppression. "Stonewall" anyone? I am glad that the guild leadership doesn't share your views on this matter and as far as I know they are working hard to come up with a better solution.

Quote by Taher

It is usually this is going to happen. If you are paying attention you know what is going to happen before it does happen.

So you knew about all of this before? Man wish we all had your insight. :)

I do not understand the problem with just the officer having discussed this issue. If this was a place of business the employees would not be able to talk to the owner or bosses about what or how something is going to happen, it just happens. No discussion or talking to the employees, sometimes they might give a heads up, not always. It is usually this is going to happen. If you are paying attention you know what is going to happen before it does happen. I personally do not really play the republic side. Mayhem and slaughter is my kind of mode and I had seen the split coming. You could tell by the size of the guild; this was something that had to happen. Some people want to say you can not join the guild until this level, do you know how much it sucks trying to get to that level knowing you are going to be in a certain guild and have no one to talk to? It sucks big time. Some say wait to split the guild until you have it under control. So when other people want to join the guild and it is full you tell them what? We'll put you on a waiting list and get back to you. I know none of you know me, I do know what my reaction to being told that I was going to be put on a waiting list to get into a guild would be. It would be to tell them no thanks I will find some place else that will take me now. With a couple of F U and maybe a go to hell in there. This game will be attracting a lot of people just because of the name. Some people will be put of by the way questing goes. I was told that by some here at work they can not stand the game for that reason. People will come and go like all games. Funny thing is I have been wanting to look into sto since I have join this guild. Sorry went off topic but point being not everything should be up for everyone to talk about. Sometimes it just needs to be done.

Quote by QiqJoe

I'm curious, maybe I'm missing something, but what else does splitting the guild do other than make people talk on the Stonewall forum instead of just the Guild chat? That's the only major difference that I can think of that most people would see (well, that and the name that appears above your character). I know in STO, Klingons and Federation talked on the same channel, and it never seemed to be too much chatter; maybe the membership was lower, I'm not the one who has that answer. But based on what I see in guild chat now, even multiplying it by 3 or 4 wouldn't make it overwhelming. Most of the time there isn't chat going on, and when there is, it's usually just a few interested individuals or people just saying hi. Captains/Officers should have multiple characters and should able to easily move among the guilds to add/assist people as needed.

The only things that changed is that people will be needing to talk in Stonewall channel rather than Guild Chat. The guilds are still be maintained and run by the same people. The guilds still follow the same rules. We just now have two instead of one.

You are correct in the fact that most Captains/Officers all have alts in all the guilds so we can switch and invite as needed.

Quote by Experian

Q, no one in this game should need any help getting to lvl 10. And I am no longer a hardcore gamer, I am more of a social gamer now (as I stated that is what I think of KoS is, a social leveling guild).

Because of the fan base Star Wars has in general this MMO is attracting people who have never actually played an MMO before and those who have. I live in house full of gamers (literally... Mother in-law (50's), father in-law(40's), brother in-law(12)). So I personally seen people struggle with things I thought normally people didn't and it was an eye opener for me.

Quote by Experian

As for the leadership, the only leadership I ever witnessed came from Doogie and he left due to the same reasons I left.

There were some role assignment issues when the game first started and they are being worked on. Nothing clear as far as what has happened has been posted (which I think should as the assumptions all over aren't helping us move forward) but leadership is actively recruiting both Officers and Captains to assist members.

Quote by Experian

And what works for one game does not always work for another. So therefore, what worked for STO won't work 100% for SWTOR. STO in my opinion was not a good MMO to begin with, that is why I cancelled my subscription to it less than one month after buying it.

You are correct what works for one game doesn't work for all of them which personally makes me chuckle because everyone backing for why this wont work is because it didn't in other games.

This situation needed to be addressed quick and anyone even outside of an mmo that has tried to get 100's of people to agree on something that had very little time to decide knows that wasn't going to work. So the Officers knowing we were running out of space quickly stepped up and said here is a solution. I'm sure they could have posted it and said please decide but had they done that and it continued the time of this thread we would be at cap and having people complain because there isn't room for their friends or alts.

Quote by Experian

And just to make myself clear, I am not resentful or trying to be hateful. I am merely trying to convey what not just I think, but from what a larger group of people have said to me as well. That is why I had witnessed many people leaving the guild before me, why I left the guild, and I am sure others are going to leave as well. A proper guild leadership involves the members in massive decisions, not just the "officers". And one more thing, nothing this drastic had to be done so abruptly. Again, it is just a game.

I can see you aren't trying to be hateful and I appreciate you expressing the concerns of people who haven't done so themselves. It made me sad to see people leave the guild over this but if that's what they had to do to make a better gaming experience for themselves than so be it.

Honestly, there were a couple of times if someone were around to help during my leveling to 10, I would have been happy to take the help. There was one quest in particular I had to wait a couple of levels above where I should have been. I think it was just too hard for the level they specified. They're constantly fiddling difficulties; I've found that out several times along the way, most recently on a class quest that I had been working on for 4 levels and could not complete until they patched it, and it was magically easy.

I know that this isn't going to be exactly like STO. But it's a similar group of people working toward a similar goal. As far as I know, there was no problem with guild size there (or maybe I just missed it). But apparently on SWTOR there is. We're going to have to cross this bridge sooner or later, so we might as well address it now, especially since we're not sure who is and isn't active not even 4 weeks into the release. If this system doesn't work, things can still be done in the future to improve it.

I'm curious, maybe I'm missing something, but what else does splitting the guild do other than make people talk on the Stonewall forum instead of just the Guild chat? That's the only major difference that I can think of that most people would see (well, that and the name that appears above your character). I know in STO, Klingons and Federation talked on the same channel, and it never seemed to be too much chatter; maybe the membership was lower, I'm not the one who has that answer. But based on what I see in guild chat now, even multiplying it by 3 or 4 wouldn't make it overwhelming. Most of the time there isn't chat going on, and when there is, it's usually just a few interested individuals or people just saying hi. Captains/Officers should have multiple characters and should able to easily move among the guilds to add/assist people as needed.

Quote by kiddkasper

This is largely why we have the sticky Link Repository in the Holocron section. People have already done the hard work for us. It's also linked from the Welcome Center. ;)

True but I prefer in house guides when I can. It's also a good way to get people on and using the forums.

This is largely why we have the sticky Link Repository in the Holocron section. People have already done the hard work for us. It's also linked from the Welcome Center. ;)

I think a new forum section called "The Codex" might be a great place for people to post How-to's, walk-throughs, guides, etc. that can be found quickly.

Hello, by which this site works great on my phone. I could give you times of when I am going to be on but I don't even know when that is! I am mainly on from Tuesday night about 6pm central to when I decide to go to bed. Wednesday and Thursday are based off of when I wake up and go to bed Tuesday. Friday through Monday I work 7:45 pm to 6:15am yeah I know weird times. Sometimes I will play in the morning when I get home from work and sometimes it when I wake up before going to work. Nothing like mayhem and slaughter before going to work with mentally disturbed children! Justjon can tell you that is really how things work out for me. Oh yeah almost forgot. I have one of each for the republic and empire. Still haven't decided what I like but so far it has been the AI sniper.

Thank you Taher for your concern, it's nice to know I'm apprechiated. However, I'm just an one of the officer team and part of my job is to sort out the admin. The officers all work together as a team to get everything done and make sure that the members don't have to worry about the guild falling apart, lol.

We are currently short 4 officers and accepting applications, so if you or anyone else would like to help, feel free to apply. The officer workload can be quite high, especially at busy times, so there is also the Captain position for members who want to be more useful than the officers, lol. The information on these positions is in the Council Chamber forum. :)

I do like this guild. I know there are some problems on the republic side. I feel that running two or three guilds might be a little rough for one person. I feel that someone else should step up and take one of the guilds off of Zeps hands. I have ran a guild before and I know it is a lot of work. I don't have the time to put into a running a guild or even being a captian or an officer. I would not be on when a lot of the players are on. I know that handing over a guild to someone that you don't know at all is probably not an option. I get that, I gave my wow guild to my dad. I would not have given it to anyone else. I know that you guys are trying to get the guilds together and orginazed. If I am wrong in any of this I am sorry. Thanks for reading my rant.

Quote by QiqJoe

So to me, the leadership here hasn't been lazy at all -- they've been working hard to provide the best product for EVERYONE, not just the most hardcore gamers like yourself. Frankly, I appreciate that especially since I don't have the most predictable schedule to play. And it seems to me that they have come up with what appears to be a good product -- something that can accommodate more people for a more robust SWTOR experience with seemingly only cosmetic changes to guild chatting.

I don't think it was laziness as well but the result of a culmination of events. The Holiday season, the stepping down by some officers and the time to recruit new ones didn't leave much time for the Guild Leadership to take everyone's opinion on the issue. (since this is a guild that is open to everyone and we are all free to discuss it -- hopefully)

I also think that the Guild Leadership probably wasn't expecting such a negative reaction from some members, since some have come from other MMOs where they have gotten used to a certain way of doing things.

I can only speak for myself, I don't really have a problem with the solution presented by the Guild Leadership, it's definitely not the best solution but not the worst either, and every time I read a new post by an officer I get more confused with the way it's being explained.
My confusion lies with how the Guild Leadership sees Knights of Stonewall has their Flagship Guild, but on the other hand you can't really call it a Flagship, since the guild really isn't being inclusive of all members, specially those that don't want (or interested) to play a Force user class might end up feeling "penalized" for not belonging to KoS. (sorry I know it's confusing and it's hard for me to explain since English is not my lingua franca)

TL;DR KoS shouldn't be called a Flagship Guild nor should be used as a vehicle of cohesion because it's not, it will be a Guild just for Force users, while non force users will be with SoS.
True cohesion comes from the name Stonewall and not from a prefix or suffix which seems to be where the confusion might be coming from.

Now I still vote for the BH/IA guild to be called Master of Stonewall :P