Here we go again. First off let me say that after reading this I talked with leadership of Stonewall Council to hear their side of the story. Nick is right, Officers of Stonewall Council did in fact use this websites private message system to invite people into Stonewall Council. One small fact is being left out however, the people contacted had ALREADY quit KoS and had made public statements as such. No current member of KoS was ever sent a private message asking them to leave and join SC. Everyone in Stonewall Council that left KoS did so of their own free will and was not asked by any member of SC too due so to our knowledge. If this did happen I encourage KoS leadership to bring this to our attention so we can ensure that it no longer occurs.
Targeted recruitment of members or participating in acts that have the effect of discriminating against, or segregating, members of the fleet are strictly prohibited and may result in removal.
There has been active KoS members who have approached Stonewall Council asking if we are affiliated with KoS. To those people SC leadership simply said no, but that we are made up of former KoS members who didn't like the direction the guild was going in. Nowhere on our website is there any mention of KoS or negitive comments about it. I was one person who left KoS do to unhappiness with the way this guild was being run. I made a post to that effect announcing my departure without knowledge that SC even existed. It was only after I quit KoS that I was contacted via PM by one of my friends in SC.
The last point I want to make is this idea that spiting the guild in it's current form was all Doug's idea, Doug said and I quote: "Many ideas were suggested. At launch I suggested an alt guild for overflow just like in STO were we they had Deep Space Stonewall. But was ignored or some officers didn't think we would have the problem. I was against a 4 way class split. I was also against the level split. Right before stepping down, the decision was made of the two guilds. Because of how I was treated, I really didn't have a vested interest. So I don't even remember what I picked as an option. Too many of the officers where not that actively involved in the first couple weeks, by that point I was burned out."
Look, if people are happy with the way this guild is being run, which clearly certain people are, that's fine and great. But people also have the right to leave if they are not happy with it, and they have the right to express why they are leaving. You can not point a finger at Doug and say it's all his fault. No one forced anyone to quit Kos, not one person was manipulated, no one was pressured, they all left of their own individual free will and they don't deserve to be criticized for it. It was only after they left that Doug and others sent PMs. If you think sending PMs to former KoS members are tacky, that is your right, and it is your right to ban them from your site. But lets at least be honest about what really happened and stop with all the spin.
It's unfortunate, but the original post is filled with half-truths and circumstantial conclusions that are unbecoming of Stonewall Fleet.
There has been concerted effort not to pressure, incite or even ask anyone to leave KoS. This was an emphatic insistence by those who founded the new guild, and we have been very careful not to bring up the subject. Anyone who has expressed frustration with KoS or an intent to leave KoS (especially if any of us were already friends with them) might have been offered the chance to join this other guild; but it was never a matter of active recruitment or poaching.
Most of us did not leave KoS because of the proposed split, and have made clear among ourselves and (some) on these forums that some of us supported that plan and others didn't. We are as evenly divided on that score as the KoS membership was. So, no we were not misled into following the person who advocated what we were against. To say so misrepresents the situation and all of us who left. It is also false that most of us came from a particular guild in WoW. Some of us never even played WoW (myself included), and most of the others that initially started Stonewall Council were from different WoW guilds.
You state that "it strains credulity to believe this is a mere coincidence" in reference to the founding of a guild by a former officer and a small group of vocally critical members. This is not only circumstantial evidence (hardly a valid reason to remove someone from the guild and forums!), but even if it is true, may I remind everyone that the VERY FIRST rule in the Code of Conduct is: Be respectful. Remember that all members are entitled to their opinions" (emphasis mine). So you've violated the code of conduct yourself by using vocal opposition to the leadership decisions as a partial basis for removal.
The bottom line is this: from the point of early access to his leaving in early January, Doogiegood was the leadership of KoS. Other officers were barely visible if at all.
The nominal guild leader had made it clear he would not even be playing the game. "Community Manager" or not, he has no right to any input into the running of the guild without being an active member of the guild. (You can not be an active member of a guild in a game you do not play.)
You (meaning NicholasJohn16 and any other officers complicit in this decision) claim that Stonewall Fleet and KoS should be a welcoming place where everyone is free to contribute to the community. Yet you've banned multiple members for reasons that are unsubstantiated. You've done so without evidence, due process or an opportunity for those members to defend themselves. You've done so with a statement that is misleading, assumptive, and defensive.
The conclusion of the Code of Conduct reads in part: "Finally, any member can be removed from the guild without having violated the rules above if they are found to have negatively affected the overall morale of the guild." How can you say a handful of people leaving the guild--regardless of their reasons--negatively affects the morale worse than the banning and silencing of those members without any valid grounds for dismissal. Is the overall morale devastated more by the departure of a small group of members from one aspect of the guild... or by the unjust banishment of those members from the community?
I've been a member of Stonewall Fleet since closed beta of STO, and count many friends among the members. ... Some of us have been long-term members of this community. While I have not taken any leadership position, I have been a present and vocal supporter of this community for over two years now.
Is your faith so weak that it can't stand a little scrutiny?
As my fellow guild mates of Stonewall Council have stated, none of us have "poached" any members from KoS. Before I had left, I already knew of 6 people who were on the verge of leaving KoS due to the lack of leadership. I, myself, left due to multiple reason, one being the lack of leadership and one being the way Daddylicious and I were treated that day in guild chat. In fact, it was Zepari who who broke the first rule of conduct that day (and Justjon had broken it a few days before in guild chat when he stated that he didn't like me even though he had never known me before that very short conversation in guild chat).
Here we go again. First off let me say that after reading this I talked with leadership of Stonewall Council to hear their side of the story. Nick is right, Officers of Stonewall Council did in fact use this websites private message system to invite people into Stonewall Council. One small fact is being left out however, the people contacted had ALREADY quit KoS and had made public statements as such. No current member of KoS was ever sent a private message asking them to leave and join SC. Everyone in Stonewall Council that left KoS did so of their own free will and was not asked by any member of SC too due so to our knowledge. If this did happen I encourage KoS leadership to bring this to our attention so we can ensure that it no longer occurs.
There has been active KoS members who have approached Stonewall Council asking if we are affiliated with KoS. To those people SC leadership simply said no, but that we are made up of former KoS members who didn't like the direction the guild was going in. Nowhere on our website is there any mention of KoS or negitive comments about it. I was one person who left KoS do to unhappiness with the way this guild was being run. I made a post to that effect announcing my departure without knowledge that SC even existed. It was only after I quit KoS that I was contacted via PM by one of my friends in SC.
I have no comment on the charter really as it's a mute point in my opinion. If you look at any other gay guild's charter they are almost identical as we all tend to stand for the same thing. As for the Stonewall name in a guild, there were many Stonewall guilds that existed before even Stonewall Fleet, so if Doug is guilty of stealing that then so is Nick. The reason the name Stonewall was chosen is becuase we have a lot of members from Stonewall Family, a guild which predates KoS.
The last point I want to make is this idea that spiting the guild in it's current form was all Doug's idea, Doug said and I quote: "Many ideas were suggested. At launch I suggested an alt guild for overflow just like in STO were we they had Deep Space Stonewall. But was ignored or some officers didn't think we would have the problem. I was against a 4 way class split. I was also against the level split. Right before stepping down, the decision was made of the two guilds. Because of how I was treated, I really didn't have a vested interest. So I don't even remember what I picked as an option. Too many of the officers where not that actively involved in the first couple weeks, by that point I was burned out."
It's also worth pointing out that the vast majority of people who left this guild did not do so because of the split, but because of the way in which it was handled. Many felt that such an important decision that would have effected everyone should have input from the general membership. The split was known about before the game even luanched and the claim that it was a last second decision is false. This of course was pointed out in the other thread by many people.
Look, if people are happy with the way this guild is being run, which clearly certain people are, that's fine and great. But people also have the right to leave if they are not happy with it, and they have the right to express why they are leaving. You can not point a finger at Doug and say it's all his fault. No one forced anyone to quit Kos, not one person was manipulated, no one was pressured, they all left of their own individual free will and they don't deserve to be criticized for it. It was only after they left that Doug and others sent PMs. If you think sending PMs to former KoS members are tacky, that is your right, and it is your right to ban them from your site. But lets at least be honest about what really happened and stop with all the spin.
I'm sure this will be deleted as I know people like to control their "world view" they have but the reason people left was that our supposed Guild Leader NicholasJohn decided prior to launch that he was not going to be playing Star Wars The Old Republic now I questioned myself why would I obey someone who doesn't know me because he doesn't play the game that I am playing, as far as I'm concerned he would be website admin and have no say in a game he has no stake in (yes I'm talking about NicholasJohn).
Not only were we not made aware of this (I checked the forums before asking officers and was never given a straight answer as to why NicholasJohn had any say in a guild for a game that he is not playing)
The person that had been handling the majority of the tasks of a Guild Leader (that would be Doogie) was passed over for Zepari (who I have issue with) who hadn't played at all on Repulic ( I know this because I had early invite since the first day and played consistently up until I left the guild. I never announcement or badmouthed this guild or its officership till then.
Janeway must prevent the destruction of the solar system by a 20th century entrepreneur who has acquired the timeship.
I agree that they should be ashamed of themselves. Will they still be able to go into the stonewall or the kos channels? They might decide to do something stupid like join the channels and harass people in there.
